The River District

[TheArtist]

Updates to the River District Website.


Here is a neat video.

It takes a couple minutes to completely download, or you can hit the play, then wait, then hit play, then wait, etc. as I did lol.

http://www.okriverdistrict.com/video.html

The Marketing Brochure...

http://www.okriverdistrict.com/brochure.html

Here is a preview of the "football field sized" water fountain. Is it just me, or does this seem a bit nicer than the fountain in Bartlett Square? []

http://www.flipseekllc.com/nhorriverdistrictvideo.html


Noticed there is a lot of parking around the edge of the River District. But hopefully it will be eventually used up and made into structured parking and other businesses/living, as I have seen other developments of this sort do. The development does have a lot of structured parking already though which is great. Is going to make a very nice little "Mc Downtown" for Jenks.

[SXSW]

It would be nice to see two main things addressed:

1) The river itself.  Some kind of dock where you could actually go out by the water and (eventually) board boats to take you up to the Aquarium, Riverwalk Crossing, and Kings Landing and points further north and south in the future.  A continuation of the wide riverside trail that connects this with Riverwalk and the Aquarium is a given, right??

2) The tracks.  This would be perfect location for a Jenks stop on a future commuter rail line up to downtown.  Perfect location for commuters in Jenks/South Tulsa right off the Creek Tpke. where they could park their cars (or ride a bus, or bike), hop on the train, and then be in the heart of downtown in about 10-15 min. depending on how many stops are included in between.  This would make this project the first significant transit-oriented development (TOD) in Oklahoma and could really help build support for that commuter line.

[cannon_fodder]

Wow, great thought.  A commuter rail from that area to downtown would actually make sense.  There is enough parking for park and ride to downtown, PLUS on the weekends there could be enough Tulsan's heading that way for the Riverwalk, New River District and/or the Aquarium to have it used.

[SXSW]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Wow, great thought.  A commuter rail from that area to downtown would actually make sense.  There is enough parking for park and ride to downtown, PLUS on the weekends there could be enough Tulsan's heading that way for the Riverwalk, New River District and/or the Aquarium to have it used.

EXACTLY!  However the plans show no mention of such a stop or how the stop would connect to the rest of the development.  Maybe if the City would even address that the downtown-Jenks corridor is even slated for future commuter rail they could add it to the plans so they're prepared once it happens.  Denver has some great TOD's on their rail lines that would be very similar: Littleton, Englewood, and Broadway.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Wow, great thought.  A commuter rail from that area to downtown would actually make sense.  There is enough parking for park and ride to downtown, PLUS on the weekends there could be enough Tulsan's heading that way for the Riverwalk, New River District and/or the Aquarium to have it used.

EXACTLY!  However the plans show no mention of such a stop or how the stop would connect to the rest of the development.  Maybe if the City would even address that the downtown-Jenks corridor is even slated for future commuter rail they could add it to the plans so they're prepared once it happens.  Denver has some great TOD's on their rail lines that would be very similar: Littleton, Englewood, and Broadway.

There was a rail station included in the early plans for the River District, but it was removed even though INCOG has targeted this very rail corridor as having potential for transit.

This rail line is perfect. It's almost unused (unlike the Broken Arrow line that constantly has trains parked on it) so there's little to no conflict with freight trains. It goes from downtown south through west Tulsa right by the OSU College of Medicine, Riverparks and on through the west side industrial area. It passes near Tulsa Hills, Jones Riverside Airport and then Riverwalk Crossing. It goes to the middle of downtown Jenks, then very near the Aquarium and then right next to The River District and then on to Bixby. It directly serves downtown, several residential areas, several shopping area, a number of employment centers, several tourist spots, the area's second largest airport and the regions two fastest growing cities. One single very limited bus service radiating out from a major stop at 71st you could add major employment and dense residential areas along 71st (Riverside to Lewis), ORU, Citiplex and even the Creek Casino.

I think that should tell you all you need to know about the prospects for rail here in the near future. A developer thought of it, planned for it and then after consideration shelved the idea even thought it's the single best rail line for transit in the entire metro.

[Conan71]

I rode alongside the line on the new pedestrian path.  It would be practical as well as scenic, especially in summer.  I think there would be commuter advantages and could help connect downtown entertainment districts with those in Jenks.

Most of the infrastructure is there.  We just need the choo-choo and some well-placed stations.

This one is so obvious, it's almost certain the city will miss it.[]

What's up with this PFox?

[SXSW]

^ Funny how many people and many city leaders are fixated on the BA line when the Jenks line should probably take priority and be the first implemented.  IF they could clean up the wastewater facility at 71st on the west bank of the river a park-n-ride station would be perfect there.  Then eventually surround it with apartments and houses right there at the base of Turkey Mountain with river trail and 71st St. access.  

I'd propose these stops between downtown and the River District, with eventual connection to Bixby on the same rail line:

-West Bank near OSU (could be another TOD just waiting to happen)

-23rd Street (another prime redevelopment spot just across the bridge from Riverview/Maple Ridge

-71st Street (see above)

-Downtown Jenks (right by their historic Main Street area)

I could also see a station at 41st ONLY IF the City was serious about a 41st Street bridge in the future, which it seems they are not...

[TheArtist]

Am I the only one excited about the Tulsa area getting a development like this? Was hoping to get some comments about the video and the development, not get a litany of gripes about dams and rail lines. Everyone gripes about this or that bad strip mall type development going in Tulsa or one of the suburbs, then this, which looks pretty decent to me, comes along, and instead of commenting about the development, they find a way to use it as a reason to gripe about something else.  Zeeeesh.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I rode alongside the line on the new pedestrian path.  It would be practical as well as scenic, especially in summer.  I think there would be commuter advantages and could help connect downtown entertainment districts with those in Jenks.

Most of the infrastructure is there.  We just need the choo-choo and some well-placed stations.

This one is so obvious, it's almost certain the city will miss it.[]

What's up with this PFox?

Yes... Inquiring minds want to know..?

[}:)]

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Am I the only one excited about the Tulsa area getting a development like this? Was hoping to get some comments about the video and the development, not get a litany of gripes about dams and rail lines. Everyone gripes about this or that bad strip mall type development going in Tulsa or one of the suburbs, then this, which looks pretty decent to me, comes along, and instead of commenting about the development, they find a way to use it as a reason to gripe about something else.  Zeeeesh.

I can't speak for everyone here, but it's hard for me to get excited about much that's happening in Jenks.  What I'm about to type is going to sound somewhat hostile, but please don't take it personally.  Also, don't turn it around and point it at Tulsa.  I know Tulsa's failings.  I'm just expressing my lack of excitement for Jenks.  The reasons:

1)  Fairly or not, I view Jenks as a place for those who fled Tulsa to create their own insular community.  It's not my town; it belongs to those who rejected my town.  

2)  The developers tried to steal my baseball team for their own profit.  I took this personally.  You can have the rich suburbanites, but don't take the minor league baseball with you.

3)  It's a Disney Downtown in former pastureland.  I'll take the real thing, thanks.  If nothing else, I'll stick with Utica Square--better traffic flow, and a Saks Fifth Avenue.

Anyway, you asked.  Dallas folks don't get excited for the latest development in Southlake or Frisco, and neither should Tulsans be expected to get fired up about a new shopping center 18 miles from home.  My two cents ....

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Am I the only one excited about the Tulsa area getting a development like this? Was hoping to get some comments about the video and the development, not get a litany of gripes about dams and rail lines. Everyone gripes about this or that bad strip mall type development going in Tulsa or one of the suburbs, then this, which looks pretty decent to me, comes along, and instead of commenting about the development, they find a way to use it as a reason to gripe about something else.  Zeeeesh.

I can't speak for everyone here, but it's hard for me to get excited about much that's happening in Jenks.  What I'm about to type is going to sound somewhat hostile, but please don't take it personally.  Also, don't turn it around and point it at Tulsa.  I know Tulsa's failings.  I'm just expressing my lack of excitement for Jenks.  The reasons:

1)  Fairly or not, I view Jenks as a place for those who fled Tulsa to create their own insular community.  It's not my town; it belongs to those who rejected my town.  

2)  The developers tried to steal my baseball team for their own profit.  I took this personally.  You can have the rich suburbanites, but don't take the minor league baseball with you.

3)  It's a Disney Downtown in former pastureland.  I'll take the real thing, thanks.  If nothing else, I'll stick with Utica Square--better traffic flow, and a Saks Fifth Avenue.

Anyway, you asked.  Dallas folks don't get excited for the latest development in Southlake or Frisco, and neither should Tulsans be expected to get fired up about a new shopping center 18 miles from home.  My two cents ....

I get your feelings. But to me, Jenks might as well be Tulsa. It wouldnt exist as we know it without us. May be 18 miles away for you, its not that far from me. This will be closer to many many Tulsans than Downtown Tulsa. Matter of fact some will be able to look out their windows, across the river and see this development. It is just across the river, some of Tulsa is just across the river. If Jenks were called Tulsa or a part of Tulsa, people would be moving there just as surely as they are moving to South Tulsa. Have the people in South Tulsa "left your city"?

We can complain against suburban sprawl, but whether its in Tulsa or across the street, or river, its all the same. Many people, like my parents did when I was growing up, went for the latest subdevision on the outskirts of the city...it just so happened at that time those new suburban neighborhoods were still well within the city proper. The growth is migrating south, Tulsa ran out of room, across the street, across the river is more land.... and there ya have it. Again, I dont think people would have cared any more about whether that spot was called Tulsa or Jenks, they would be moving there, just like the booming neighborhoods on the other side of the river in South Tulsa. "Its not the schools, Gleenpool is starting to see growth and their schools suck compared to Tulsas though they are getting better as their student demographics change. Glenpool too is just in the path of the current direction of growth"

Remember to, when OKC gets something like this they are excited about it. The city of OKC is bigger than Tulsa county. Why should we knock something that happens within Tulsa county, yet watch as OKC revels in what they achieve within their city?  Here is theirs....  http://oktalk.net/bb/index.php?topic=1450.75
and the office park going nearby...http://oktalk.net/bb/index.php?topic=2947.0

Both our development and theirs are almost exactly the same distance from downtown.


As for the baseball stadium,,, different topic, but I would rather it go downtown so that it helps downtown, for a thriving downtown will benefit the image of the whole region, including Jenks. If there wasnt a way for it to go downtown, I wouldnt have minded it being in Jenks. It would probably have done well there, if not better than its current location, and that too would have been better for us all.

Sure I would like to change everyones attitudes about suburban sprawl and get them to choose to live in older neighborhoods within the city or abandoned parts to the north (can you imagine the infill?). And I hope we will continue to see more of that and change more peoples attitudes, its not just Tulsa that is seeing similar changes ... but that is a BIG task and is going to take time before a majority here think that way. I doubt it can ever be completely changed. But this development aint bad, its more urban than what we usually see and is right on Tulsas border. Good news on both fronts if you ask me.


Disney downtown... I dont think we have to decide which is better or choose between them, Utica Square or the River District. Glad we will have both. IMO it IS Tulsa that is building the River District, we are after all building Jenks. Its because of Tulsas success, Tulsas prosperity. This development wouldnt exist without Tulsa.

[Conan71]

I can understand Floyd's sentiment and bet he's not alone.  It's not his cup of tea and I'm not going to take someone to task over it.  

Personally, I believe a rising tide raises all ships so I think all that development has been good for all of Tulsa.  I go out to the Riverwalk Crossing or King's Landing about every-other week, and also patronize many places in mid-town and in-between.  It's a nice scenic ride on the motorcycle, except for all the damn stop lights on Riverside now.

I guess the way I look at it is it's money which is going back into the local economy whether I eat at SoChey or Gina and Giuseppe's.  Many of the people who work out there, own businesses, or manage them spend their money all around the area as well, likely most of it in Tulsa proper.  

Jenks helped make the land developable instead of sitting on it like a stupid elephant guarding a pile of dung, which is more or less what COT has done for ages with it's share of the river.  They also managed to do it without a large scale money grab on hapless taxpayers who had the same attitude about not really caring about what was planned 18 miles from where THEY lived.

My life has cycled from mid-town to the Jenks district and back a couple of times.  First as a child.  Then starting out after school I gradually migrated further south till I was back in the Jenks district, now I've been back in midtown, living only about five houses from the first house I ever owned- on the same block.

[Renaissance]

I'm not anti-River District, I'm just not excited about it.  Call it ambivalence.

Read this article about "lifestyle centers," pulled from the link to the other forum Artist made.  There's something inauthentic and creepy about this suburban faux-urbanism and the author captures it well.

http://www.slate.com/id/2116246/

quote: There's something a bit unhealthy about faux public places designed to attract rich people and make them feel comfortable. (At least the traditional mall didn't try to hide the fact that it was a shopping center.) The lifestyle center is a bizarre outgrowth of the suburban mentality: People want public space, even if making that space private is the only way to get it.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Originally posted by SXSW

Originally posted by cannon_fodder


This rail line is perfect. It's almost unused (unlike the Broken Arrow line that constantly has trains parked on it) so there's little to no conflict with freight trains. It goes from downtown south through west Tulsa right by the OSU College of Medicine, Riverparks and on through the west side industrial area. It passes near Tulsa Hills, Jones Riverside Airport and then Riverwalk Crossing. It goes to the middle of downtown Jenks, then very near the Aquarium and then right next to The River District and then on to Bixby.

The Tulsa-Sapulpa Union Rwy uses a section of the tracks to serve (at least) the Kimberly-Clark plant.  I don't know the frequency of the service. The tracks used to go on to Muskogee and Ft Smith. The flood of 1986 (or was it 88?) damaged a lot of the tracks and roadbed. They were abandonded.  The tracks stop somewhere between the K-C plant and downtown Bixby. I know they don't go as far as Memorial any more.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I'm not anti-River District, I'm just not excited about it.  Call it ambivalence.

Read this article about "lifestyle centers," pulled from the link to the other forum Artist made.  There's something inauthentic and creepy about this suburban faux-urbanism and the author captures it well.

http://www.slate.com/id/2116246/

quote: There's something a bit unhealthy about faux public places designed to attract rich people and make them feel comfortable. (At least the traditional mall didn't try to hide the fact that it was a shopping center.) The lifestyle center is a bizarre outgrowth of the suburban mentality: People want public space, even if making that space private is the only way to get it.

If I were to choose, say, between OKCs Bricktown and our Brookside, I would choose Brookside. Brookside is more "real" and Bricktown seems more strained and artificial, "Disneyesque". I would also choose between Bricktown and the River District I would choose the River District.

I have read other articles about these new "enhanced" lifestyle centers, ones that dont have just shopping but a good component of living, office, hotel, structured parking, etc. and they point out what I have seen happen with some of the older ones. They evolve, expand outward, shake off the newness and start gathering some authenticity. Utica Square anyone? Utica Square wasnt always the charming, cozy, lived in, place it is now. It was once a shiny new shopping center out in a suburban area, built in a field.  


I would think that people would be encouraging this type of development, pointing out the good points about it. What it does right, what others should do. We complain when south Tulsa or the suburbs do differently, then feel "ho hum" when they do it right? I doubt that something this dense, urban and mixed use would have gone in that area otherwise. Fake or not, beats the heck out of some Tulsa Hills type development. Its even better than what we have with Woodland Hills and whats aroun that. Will STILL take a long time for that to evolve into a "real" pedestrian friendly, mixed use, urban, environment.