So Just How Bad Does Vista Suck?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

Dell's online store for small business offers new laptops with XP Home or XP Pro standard, and they'll throw in the media for Vista.

I don't see a compelling reason to switch, and having seen a brand new laptop with Vista take 10 minutes to boot, I'm happy to stay with XP.

Brand new to when?  1998?  I have seen MANY laptops that are brand new take about 45 seconds from powerup to boot on Vista.

My desktop which is an x64 with the 64 bit version of Vista Ultimate takes about that long, sometimes shorter to boot.

FUD does abound on this topic, it would seem.

[sgrizzle]

Did you just reply to the same thing twice?

Inteller, I'm guessing you're running a self-installed version of Vista. I can see it taking significantly longer on a store-bought machine because:
1. Places like bestbuy were selling woefully underpowered machines with Vista
2. OEM's load up their machines with every toolbar, system assistant, and media player manufactured. These can add minutes to boot time.

[custosnox]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Did you just reply to the same thing twice?

Inteller, I'm guessing you're running a self-installed version of Vista. I can see it taking significantly longer on a store-bought machine because:
1. Places like bestbuy were selling woefully underpowered machines with Vista
2. OEM's load up their machines with every toolbar, system assistant, and media player manufactured. These can add minutes to boot time.

Hence the reason that if I was to ever buy a store branded machine (in other words if I ever get the money for a new laptop) I'll wipe the drive and start from scratch.  But, even without doing this, you can take 10 or 15 minutes out to go in and remove all of this from the boot up.  Not to mention the fact that this happens with XP too.  I like my machine, I hit the power, go take a wizz, come back, log on to my account, find something on the DVR to play, and It's ready to go.  Only time it seems to take a long time to boot is if I'm just sitting there staring at the screen.  Gotta love those watched tea kettles.

[izmophonik]

To cut through all the crap...Vista is fine, it has it's hang ups just like XP did when it came out.  It is a resource hog so if you want a pleasant experience, plan on 4GB RAM and at least a dual core processor.  I myself am running Ultimate 64bit with a dual core AMD and I couldn't be happier.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Did you just reply to the same thing twice?

Inteller, I'm guessing you're running a self-installed version of Vista. I can see it taking significantly longer on a store-bought machine because:
1. Places like bestbuy were selling woefully underpowered machines with Vista
2. OEM's load up their machines with every toolbar, system assistant, and media player manufactured. These can add minutes to boot time.

no, i'm running all brand name machines, although not purchased at Worst Buy.  Vista was pre-installed on all the boxes.

Based on your comment about toolbars you are calling login time boot time.  Those are NOT the same.  Boot time is from the point beyond the bios screen to a user login prompt.  Toolbars and other garbage that run in the user space can be turned off and/or uninstalled.  

Bottom line, those things have NOTHING to do with Vista itself.  If you are too stupid to turn those things off, you deserve the performance you get.

The only things that could add to the bootup time would be anti-virus and unneeded system services.  Windows (any version) starts a lot of services automatically because you -might- use them.  Internet research will show you which ones you can safely turn off.

The #1 killer of boot time performance is Norton Anti-Virus and its ilk, found on MANY store bought computers.  The first thing to do to get about a 5-10% performance increase across the board is to uninstall anything related to Symantec.  I've seen their crapware take up hundreds of megs of RAM just sitting there.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by izmophonik

To cut through all the crap...Vista is fine, it has it's hang ups just like XP did when it came out.  It is a resource hog so if you want a pleasant experience, plan on 4GB RAM and at least a dual core processor.  I myself am running Ultimate 64bit with a dual core AMD and I couldn't be happier.

That sounds like my box.  I think the RAM speed is more helpful than anything.  I went to 4Gb for Virtual PC reasons, but I noticed a little more snap just going to PC-5300 DIMMs.  My RAM utilization was the same though.


funny thing though, I put Vista x64 on a P4HT with 4Gb and a FireGL 3350 at work and it only got a 3.9 WEI...all because of the FireGL.  But the machine itself seems to run ok.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Good topic. I have an old Dell computer thats about 5 years or so old now, perhaps 6. It seems to really slow down when I do major image stuff with photoshop. Plus I am tired of sitting in one spot with this desktop. Just yesterday at the TN meeting I asked the geek squad there what I should get. They said the Mac Book Pro. Just looked up the pice... geez thats a fancy price, about 2,800. May have to wait till I finish my casino mural project late summer. But I do hear that for people that do lots of visual arts stuff that Mac is a good system, and I need a lot of speed. But gosh thats a pretty penny for a laptop. Plus I want to upgrade from my little 26" flat screen to a 42" over the fireplace lol. And if I got that then I would of course want a Blue Ray player and a decent sound system... All together your starting to get around the 6,000$ plus mark.  Descisions, descisions. Danged consumer society always coming up with new toys, I mean, necessities.

I am a reformed PC user/builder/destroyer.  I do graphic design, art, and 3D rendering on a Mac, and will never own another PC.

Some things that Mac simply does better is:

Handle large graphic images (many times faster than a PC without crashes).

Multi-tasking programs with no noticeable slow down (I currently have 12 applications open on my screen now)

The Microsoft Office Suite, Word, Excell, PowerPoint actually has more options graphically and runs better on the Mac (go figure? Thanks Bill).

Work with PDFs, RAW camera images, PhotoShop images in their native format even if you don't own the software (this is a huge advantage if you are a photographer or hobbyist!)

Store HUGE amounts of high-rez imagery in a single indexed iPhoto or Aperture library.

Boots in about 10 to 20 seconds even when loaded with apps.

No virus software to deal with. (I know there are viruses for Mac, it's just that neither I nor anyone I have known has ever encountered any of them, kinda like an urban myth I guess.  Apple has immediately patched all new virus threats within the operating system rather than relying on yearly security patches and 3rd party vendors.)

More elegant, easier to use operating system.

Completely integrate your computer system with you home entertainment system, music, video, photos, everything! (I have these little $99 apple Airport Express boxes all over my house that I can plug in and instantly use to hook to anything to hear digital music, attach peripherals, or extend my network.

I've even used them to take over to neighbor's houses to use my iTunes library for parties.

Then you have the whole AppleTV thing that eliminates your need for Blockbuster, just click click, movie rented $2.99! or put your friends to sleep with your vacation photos.  Or watch YouTube until you are brain dead!


I know I sound like a commercial, but ask yourself this, have you ever met a Mac user that didn't sound like a commercial?

Hmmm.  I wonder why?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
I know I sound like a commercial, but ask yourself this, have you ever met a Mac user that didn't sound like a commercial?

Hmmm.  I wonder why?

maybe because the Cult of Apple programs them that way?[}:)]

nothing you mentioned is beyond a properly configured Vista box.

OS X is nice, but the retarded premium Apple puts on their hardware is a deal breaker.  For instance, your little airport express ripoffs are simply wifi bridges in a pretty white box and marked up something ridiculous.  Linksys and netgear sell devices that will do the same thing for much less.

This is why they will never sell the OS separately and take draconian steps of keeping it on their hardware....they make Microsoft look like an angel.



Can you imagine if you could only get Windows on a Dell?  I think I'd puke.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
I know I sound like a commercial, but ask yourself this, have you ever met a Mac user that didn't sound like a commercial?

Hmmm.  I wonder why?

maybe because the Cult of Apple programs them that way?[}:)]

nothing you mentioned is beyond a properly configured Vista box.

OS X is nice, but the retarded premium Apple puts on their hardware is a deal breaker.  For instance, your little airport express ripoffs are simply wifi bridges in a pretty white box and marked up something ridiculous.  Linksys and netgear sell devices that will do the same thing for much less.

This is why they will never sell the OS separately and take draconian steps of keeping it on their hardware....they make Microsoft look like an angel.



Can you imagine if you could only get Windows on a Dell?  I think I'd puke.

Really I didn't realize Linksys or netgear had such a device with USB ports, an optical port, and stereo plugs that you can plug in with zero config for less than $99.  They should really advertise!

I am glad you are here to inform us of such.

Now I have to get back to my ritual daily sacrifice to Steve Jobs.

Thanks for the helpful post.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
Now I have to get back to my ritual daily sacrifice to Steve Jobs.

i figured as much.

[EricP]

Inteller, I think us PC users should start spouting off long lists of basic functionality as a fantastic selling point for why PC's are better than Macs. It'd be like QVC!

"THIS COMPUTER CAN HAVE TWEEEEEEEELVE PROGRAMS OPEN AT ONCE WITHOUT CATCHING FIRE!!!"

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by EricP

Inteller, I think us PC users should start spouting off long lists of basic functionality as a fantastic selling point for why PC's are better than Macs. It'd be like QVC!

"THIS COMPUTER CAN HAVE TWEEEEEEEELVE PROGRAMS OPEN AT ONCE WITHOUT CATCHING FIRE!!!"

depending on what your definition of "programs" is my Vista box has that many open just sitting idle.

but really, this thread isn't about Apple, it is about Vista.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by EricP

Inteller, I think us PC users should start spouting off long lists of basic functionality as a fantastic selling point for why PC's are better than Macs. It'd be like QVC!

"THIS COMPUTER CAN HAVE TWEEEEEEEELVE PROGRAMS OPEN AT ONCE WITHOUT CATCHING FIRE!!!"

Don't get mad!

I mean if it catches on fire.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

OEM's load up their machines with every toolbar, system assistant, and media player manufactured. These can add minutes to boot time.

Ill second that.  Almost any new machine you buy today must undergo a process to "decrapify" the hard drive (I didnt make up the word - google it yourself).

Sometimes you can actually find 3rd party instructions for your particular machine online, that describe how to safely remove all the pre-installed garbage (like demos and games you will never buy) that want to take possession of all your system resources from the moment you boot.

Ever since computer makers stopped giving you your own legitimate copy of your operating system (opting instead to pre-install it for you) that's the way it's been.

Just be sure to decrapify before you connect to the internet.

[bugo]

I don't see what's so great about Vista to warrant upgrading your computer.  I'm using Vista right now, and I hate it.  It's frustrating, and every time IE freezes, instead of recovering, it restarts, going to the home page instead of the site you were on.  Vista sucks, long live XP!