EMSA Opt-Out "Open Season"

[Mike G]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Then, after responding to a medical emergency and giving first aid, IF NECESSARY, summon the ambulance for transport.

I suspect that 90% of the time there is NO transport after 9-1-1 is called. Any takers on that bet?

It's more in the neighborhood of 70-80% of calls are transported.  Out of an average of 8-10 calls, maybe 1-3 aren't transported.  Same days are higher, some are lower.  Most people call 911 and ask for an ambulance because they need to go to the hospital via an ambulance.  I mean, you don't call 911 for the fire dept. for a fire and just expect them to show up and go "yep, that's a fire, put water on it" and then leave?

As far as calling 911 for a medical, having someone come out, and then call for an ambulance.  I can see the lawsuits now, which is the same reason EMSA responds on a lot of calls like man down calls that other cities would just send PD (along with the wait time), then when PD gets out there, goes "Oh crap, he died 10 minutes ago".  Case in point, last week, a call went out to the bus stop at 81st and Lewis for a man down.  Crew got there, the patient was awake and within literally minutes, he went into cardiac arrest.  Had the crew not been there to start with, look how much more time it would have taken to get him on the road to the hospital.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

So, a more logical and economical model would have the EMT personnel sitting around the fire station drinking coffee and playing dominoes until they get an emergency call.

Considering the current call volume, they wouldn't get the opportunity to play dominoes and drink coffee very often.  Not only that, but they would demand a pay increase for the added work.  Since EMSA mainly pays for itself, with only asking $3 mil from the city to subsidize the medi-care cutbacks and the increase in operations costs, how much would the city really save by adding lots of new EMT and paramedics to the fire department which is paid for exclusively by tax-payers?

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Many fire dept. personnel around the U.S., including those with Tulsa FD, are cross-trained as EMT personnel.

There are pay incentives to achieve the various EMT certification levels, and I believe that Tulsa FD incents their personnel as well.

Yes, most FD's do cross-train.  And if you consider around $200/mo. incentive to actually work on an ambulance in addition to the other fire dept. stuff, most fire fighters will tell you that you are nuts.  The ones that work at TFD that want to work on an ambulance already work for EMSA, and can made $200 in less than two shifts (sometimes one).  So they would want a larger pay raise, which would in turn increase the fire depts. budget, which was in the neighborhood of $56 mil.

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

I find it hilarious that every time shadows rails against the storm water fee or Tulsa's storm water system, a monster downpour occurs that completely justifies their existence.

I live on the west side, and Jones Airport has recorded more than 6 1/2 inches of rain in three days. You'd be hard-pressed to find any municipality that could handle that much rain in such a short time. But Tulsa's system worked like a champ.

Wow and how many floods did we have when 6 inches was spread out over 3 days with a day in between those to dry out the first day[^]
idiot

[Wilbur]

Opt out can only be done between June 1 and June 30.  

Apparently, the Council is looking at allowing telephone opt out, where previously, it could only be done by signing your life away.  Hooray!

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080423_1_A13_hThec50745

[mrpeach]

I think it's really crappy that the City of Tulsa lets a FOR PROFIT CORPORATION use the equipment that is paid for by the citizens of Tulsa to MAKE A PROFIT and then ask for a subsidy when the profit isn't enough. I think it's crass to allow an OUT OF STATE PRIVATE COMPANY fleece the taxpayers. Let's not even get started on the subpar employees. I seem to remember back in 99 when a one eyed paramedic was driving, blew through an intersection and killed an old man. It then took the literally brain damaged dispatcher 5 minutes to figure out that the crew was asking for help. I'm sure this has all been settled and kept hush hush. IF Tulsa knows what is good for it, they will get rid of EMSA and H. Stephen "J. Edgar" Williamson. Nice to suck at the public tit for 30 years, isn't it, Uncle Stevie?

[Mike G]

quote:Originally posted by mrpeach

I think it's really crappy that the City of Tulsa lets a FOR PROFIT CORPORATION use the equipment that is paid for by the citizens of Tulsa to MAKE A PROFIT and then ask for a subsidy when the profit isn't enough. I think it's crass to allow an OUT OF STATE PRIVATE COMPANY fleece the taxpayers. Let's not even get started on the subpar employees. I seem to remember back in 99 when a one eyed paramedic was driving, blew through an intersection and killed an old man. It then took the literally brain damaged dispatcher 5 minutes to figure out that the crew was asking for help. I'm sure this has all been settled and kept hush hush. IF Tulsa knows what is good for it, they will get rid of EMSA and H. Stephen "J. Edgar" Williamson. Nice to suck at the public tit for 30 years, isn't it, Uncle Stevie?

Wow, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about do you?

[MDepr2007]

What really smells is that EMSA raised over $5 million last year with the "Opt-Out" program. The subsidy needed was just over $2 million , was it not?
Seems like it should be a free year this year, so the overage can be spent properly []

[OkieDiva]

EMSA stopped billing water customers their copays, deductibles and other costs when this started. Which meant EMSA would collect a few million less than previously planned. Which was why $5m was collected but only $2m needed for city funding. The rest was to make up for the money not billed to water customers who took an ambulance ride. All by design, no smoke and mirros.

[RecycleMichael]

I hope I don't need an ambulance, but if I do, I don't want to be worrying about how to pay for it.

I consider this to be a function of local government, just like police, fire, etc.

I also think it is appropriate to bill me a monthly charge instead of a big bill when I call them.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I hope I don't need an ambulance, but if I do, I don't want to be worrying about how to pay for it.

I consider this to be a function of local government, just like police, fire, etc.

I also think it is appropriate to bill me a monthly charge instead of a big bill when I call them.

Years ago when St. Francis started it's air ambulance service (Lifeflight), many of the ER docs started calling it "The Death Star" because if you were "lucky" enough to be transported to the hospital by Lifeflight, you were rewarded with an enormous $5,000 bill for your flight (I'm sure it's much more now).  No peanuts, no in-flight movie.  Granted, they saved lives, but they also transported lots of patients that would be just fine with an extra 20 minutes in a ground unit.

I have no problem paying for EMSA, because I know that some day I, or a member of my family will need it.  I do get mad when I see people abuse the system, and it does happen all the time!  

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I hope I don't need an ambulance, but if I do, I don't want to be worrying about how to pay for it.

I consider this to be a function of local government, just like police, fire, etc.

I also think it is appropriate to bill me a monthly charge instead of a big bill when I call them.

Depending on the Health Insurance plan, there may be NO NEED to separately pay for the EMSA coverage.

Reason:  It's provided by the health insurance carrier.  

For instance, the local Medicate Part B Supplement HMO's negotiate a transport fee with EMSA.  

It's ususally $50.00 for a hospital transport; however, if the patient is admitted to the hospital, the $50.00 EMSA fee is waived.

Therefore, there is no need for these Medicare Part B HMO patients to even have the separate coverage direct from EMSA.

Also, now that June 1st has arrived, has anyone actually tried to call the City Utilities Dept. @ 596-9511 to OPT-OUT of the EMSA fee?

Does the Utilities Dept. Customer Service Rep. provide a CONFIRMATION NUMBER for those callers that opt-out?

Otherwise, how can the caller later PROVE they phoned in to Opt-Out during the Opt-Out Time Window of June 1 - June 30th?

I'm not ready to suggest that the City of Tulsa will try to cram EMSA coverage down the city water ratepayers throats, again.  

Then again, they just might...........

Curiously, I also noticed that this year there is NO OPT-OUT form posted on the EMSA website.....

Hmmmmh?

[Jason]

quote:Originally posted by mrpeach

I think it's really crappy that the City of Tulsa lets a FOR PROFIT CORPORATION use the equipment that is paid for by the citizens of Tulsa to MAKE A PROFIT and then ask for a subsidy when the profit isn't enough. I think it's crass to allow an OUT OF STATE PRIVATE COMPANY fleece the taxpayers. Let's not even get started on the subpar employees. I seem to remember back in 99 when a one eyed paramedic was driving, blew through an intersection and killed an old man. It then took the literally brain damaged dispatcher 5 minutes to figure out that the crew was asking for help. I'm sure this has all been settled and kept hush hush. IF Tulsa knows what is good for it, they will get rid of EMSA and H. Stephen "J. Edgar" Williamson. Nice to suck at the public tit for 30 years, isn't it, Uncle Stevie?

Wow. How does it feel to be misinformed or maybe you are just really brain damaged yourself. That EMSA Paramedic was infact without one eye. However he was driving in anappropriate manner and following all safety rules regarding emergency response. The unfortunate driver of the car that he collided with did die. Now truth be told, that driver ran the intersection in front of the ambulance. That ambulance was fitted with an accident camera which records the time immediately before and after an accident. It does include the vehicles speed. It was tragic that a man lost his life but in no way the fault of an excellent Paramedic who happens to be without one eye.
By the way, regarding subpar employees. In case you were not informed. (Which we can all see) The emergency medical services in this city have been hailed not only nation wide but world wide, as one of the top systems anywhere. And your chance for surviving a cardiac arrest are better here than almost anywhere. Hope you dont need to find that out first hand but you never know....[^]

[Jason]

I am amazed at the lack of factual information being vomitted out onto this forum. Less than $4.00 per month. Some of you cannot even buy a pack of the cigarettes that will eventually require you to call an ambulance twice a week or the bottle of wine that will cause you to wreck your cars and kill yourself or someone else. Again requiring the services of an ambulance.
You spew on and on about TFD an all thier glory.  Truth be told most of thier Paamedics have no quality street experience and cannot hardly start an IV in good time. You would rather see EMS take a 30 year step backwards in the name of $3.64 a month.
FB is an idiot. He has obviously been done wrong by someone or maybe just needs a hug. One thing is certain. I want to be there when he needs an ambulance and his insuance tells him it wasnt necessary or says they will only pay 70%. I think it is clear that he most likley opted out.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Jason

I am amazed at the lack of factual information being vomitted out onto this forum. Less than $4.00 per month. Some of you cannot even buy a pack of the cigarettes that will eventually require you to call an ambulance twice a week or the bottle of wine that will cause you to wreck your cars and kill yourself or someone else. Again requiring the services of an ambulance.
You spew on and on about TFD an all thier glory.  Truth be told most of thier Paamedics have no quality street experience and cannot hardly start an IV in good time. You would rather see EMS take a 30 year step backwards in the name of $3.64 a month.
FB is an idiot. He has obviously been done wrong by someone or maybe just needs a hug. One thing is certain. I want to be there when he needs an ambulance and his insuance tells him it wasnt necessary or says they will only pay 70%. I think it is clear that he most likley opted out.

The fact is many people are already covered for an ambulance transport by their private or Medicare Part B health insurance.

So, these people do NOT need the mandatory monthly EMSA fee because they actually already have coverage through their insurance.

Any decision should be made on an individual basis, rather than in Knee-Jerk Group-Think fashion.

[OkieDiva]

FB: the fact is that the majority of people who have Medicare or insurance still have a copay or deductible that is over the EMSA fee amount.

Another fact: insurance and Medicare regularly deny claims. Some most certainly should be denied (the federal government shouldn't be paying for people to use an ambulance if they have a papercut), but Medicare also denies very legit claims... times when a reasonable person could logically assume that calling 911 was necessary. In those instances, when Medicare or insurance denies a claim, the patient pays the EMSA bill if they opt-out. This happened in my family - when the physician's assistant at the minor emergency center called for an ambulance to take my husband to the hospital. (Insurance wouldn't reconsider; we were EMSA members though and didn't have to pay.)

If the judgment of medical staff can so easily be discounted by insurance adjusters, then imagine what chance Average Joe has....

[Ttowndad]

Don't know where you get your information but it's not all correct and some is just opinion. First, EMSA is mandated by the City charter to respond to all life threatening emergencies within 8:59, the average EMSA response time however is between 5-6 minutes. Secondly the myth that TFD always shows up before EMSA is also false. During the daytime hours TFD arrives before EMSA about half of the time and at night it is even rarer. Third point, EMSA is not simply a transport unit. The paramedics that respond in those ambulances are highly trained emergency medical professionals who can save your life with their expertise and tools. They don't simply drive people to the hospital and call it good. If that all a person needs they should call a cab not 911.

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by CoffeeBean

Civil disobedience would be in order if ambulance service wasn't a matter of life-or-death.  

Imagine the newly christened trolley being replaced with calls for EMSA service.

Actually, EMSA isn't a FIRST Responder.

The Tulsa Fire Dept. is the First Responder.

Why?

EMSA lacks the density of vehicles to rapidly respond to medical emergencies within the metropolitan area.  

Reported Former Local Government Greenmail Grifter and Radio Shock Jock Jon Erling Frette used to read us the very abysmal and SCARRY EMSA Response Times on his KRMG radio spot just for laughs.

Remember?

That's before EMSA started paying his wife Margritte for "lobbying" on behalf of EMSA.  

Then Big Jon miraculously lightened up.  

Just a coincidence?

Sure.

Quid Pro Quo?

Nah.  

Just the Tulsa Premium.  

Again.

Were our Local Gifted Grifters merely shaking down various local Goobermint entities to the tune of $200K per annum to possibly buy "peace" with the notorious local Shock Jock?

Margritte helped bring us Grate Planes Airlines as their Lobbyist.

Remember?

Where did those $40 million in state and local tax dollars REALLY go?

Does she know where the bodies are buried....?

By the way, just for LAUGHS, hang around a local nursing home a few days.  

They get regular Emergency Medical calls.  Poor dears.

See which EMT vehicle ALWAYS shows up for the EMT:

It's the $400K-$600K Tulsa Fire Truck, getting a maximum 4 MPG for responding to a fainting spell.

Burning up the Tulsa roadways at 4 MPG to respond to a fainting spell.

And, burning of your Itty Bitty 3rd Penny Sales Tax dollars for brand new shiny Red Fire Trucks, at the tune of $400 - $600K per.

Instead of improving streets and roads in Tulsa.

Third Penny expenditures dropping to a paltry 28% of Third Penny expenditures at the latest Itty Bitty Third Penny Sales Tax renewal.

But, TFD has lots of big, new shiny red firetrucks to play with.

And TPD has big, new shiny police cruisers to commute home to Mannford, B.A., Jenks, Sapulpa, Sand Springs, Kellyville, Skiatook, Collinsville, and Owasso.

Your TAX Dollars at WASTE.

It's the TULSA PREMIUM.

Again.

EMSA is merely a Transport Unit.  

NOT a First Responder. They could NEVER hack it.

Hauling either Tulsa FD stabilized patients, or future organ transplant donors to local hospitals.

Once the EMT situtation has been stabilized by Tulsa FD, then EMSA transports.  

That's the standard protocol.

It's another:  TULSA PREMIUM.  

At a new mere $3.64 per customer per month.  Mere peanuts considering increasing property taxes, fuel, electricity, groceries, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Forever.

Welcome to the New World Order.

[:O]