Just bitter words...

[pmcalk]

I agree, RM, that absent further explanation, Obama's comments can appear somewhat derogatory towards those who consider religion central to their lives.  For those who have followed Obama's career, we know that nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact, one of the reasons I support Obama is because of his deep respect for religion.  Here is his Call for Renewal keynote address that he gave back in 2006:  http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call_to_renewal_keynote_address.php.  It is a rather lengthy speech, but in it he makes the case for a return of religion to political discourse.  He recognizes that the greatest movements in our country were founded upon a sense of morality spurred by religious conviction.  Yet, he also recognizes that the right wing has successfully used religion as a wedge issue, to get the working class to vote social issues rather than of economic one.

And while Obama is appealing to people's sense of religious morality to lead the country in a new direction, Hillary is simply duplicating what the republicans have done--she actually sounds like a reporter from Fox news, calling Obama an "elitist."  

If Hillary doesn't recognize that the working class is angry, she is the one out of touch.  They are angry at politicians who say one thing and do another.  Politicians who say they oppose NAFTA when they host luncheons in support of NAFTA.  Politicians who say they oppose free trade with Columbia while their spouse and chief strategist lobby in favor of it.

I am sure that Clinton must be pleased, after months waiting for Obama to "mispeak," she has some words that she can twist against Obama.  But she should be careful.  Calling Obama "elitist" is very likely to backfire.  When the working class is reminded of the millions the Clintons have made, the fact that Bill Clinton has charged $8 million to tax payers so that he could have a nice office with a view of Central Park, they just might wonder who is the pot and who is the kettle.

[Bledsoe]

I'm bitter and I own guns. I'm voting for Obama

"I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony."

John 3:11 (NIV)


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/188673.php
Talking Points Memo | For it, Before She Was Against It

For it, Before She Was Against It
04.12.08 -- 11:53PM
By Josh Marshall

Theda Skocpol writes in ...

I have been in meetings with the Clintons and their advisors where very clinical things were said in a very-detached tone about unwillingness of working class voters to trust government -- and Bill Clinton -- and about their unfortunate (from a Clinton perspective) proclivity to vote on life-style rather than economic issues. To see Hillary going absolutely over the top to smash Obama for making clearly more humanly sympathetic observations in this vein, is just amazing. Even more so to see her pretending to be a gun-toting non-elite. Give us a break!

I wonder if she realizes that gaining a few days of lurid publicity that might reach a slice of voters is going to cost her a great deal in the regard of many Democrats, whose strong support she will need if she somehow claws her way to the nomination -- and even more so if she does not clinch the nomination. The distribution of "we're not bitter" stickers to her campaign rallies is the height of over-the-top crudity, and the reports are that very few audience members seem to have much enthusiasm for this nonsense. Not surprisingly, people cannot see the reasons for so much fuss.

Yes, she wants a big break, she desperately wants the nomination she and Bill believe is hers by right. We all know that. But where is her authenticity and her dignity and her sense of any proportion?

This has to be one of the few times in U.S. political history when a multi-millionaire has accused a much less wealthy fellow public servant, a person of the same party and views who made much less lucrative career choices, of "elitism"! (I won't say the only time, because U.S. political history is full of absurdities of this sort.) In a way, it is funny -- and it may not be long before the jokes start.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/188674.php
Talking Points Memo | Obama in 2004

Obama in 2004
04.12.08 -- 11:45PM
By Josh Marshall

TPM Reader GB sent me in the video of a 2004 appearance by Barack Obama on the Charlie Rose show in which he talks about the same issue of rural and working class Americans and the Democratic party. It's from November 23rd, 2004, so just after Obama was first elected to the senate but a couple months before he was sworn in.

It's interesting to watch since it's in a very non-campaign setting and almost four years ago. He makes exactly the same point, but explains it differently. Some of it is likely equally demagoguable, but shows up some of the tendentious misconstruals of what he said. I clipped out the three minutes or so of the hour segment where he addresses this issue ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oGF3cyHE7M&eurl=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/188674.php
YouTube - Barack Obama on Rural and Working Class America, Circa 2004

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

I guess what ticks me off about it is that, although he may be telling the truth "as HE sees it," stating that people "cling" to religion is what gets me the most. "Cling" to religion? From a self portrayed "Christian?"

Please define "Cling to religion" Mr. Obama. Other than these most recent comments, I rather like the man, enough to have vote for him.

I applaud someone for speaking their mind, as he has done often and eloquently, but these last statements give me cause for some concern.

[rwarn17588]

Clinging to religion.

Been there, done that.

Without delving too much into my long-ago past, I understand that "clinging to religion" thing completely. Decades ago, I insulated and isolated myself, using my religion, against the perceived outside evils of the world that were out to "get me." (And the economic collapse of the late 1970s and early '80s was a factor.)

It's so long ago, and I'm so distant from that mind-set, it's hard to fathom now.

It took me going to college and seeing the real outside world over the next few years for me to gain more nuanced and balanced views. There's nothing like getting away from your little small-town circle and being exposed to lots of different types of people at a large public university to do this.

It doesn't mean I've lost my faith, but I'm more skeptical about it. For myriad reasons (notably the inevitable errors of centuries of translation), I don't take what I read in the Bible -- nor what I hear from preachers -- as the gospel truth (no pun intended).

So, yes, people sometimes "cling" to religion as a crutch.

Twenty-five years ago, I was Exhibit A.

[RecycleMichael]

I am just amazed that almost everyone of you attacked Hillary as a defense of Obama.

Obama and his following go after Hillary for every word she says, then Obama says something stupid and you act like Hillary can't comment on it because she isn't poor.

Today Obama attacked Hillary on gun issues. He was quoted saying, "She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsmen, how she values the Second Amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said, invoking the famed female sharpshooter immortalized in the musical "Anne Get Your Gun."

He continued: "Hillary Clinton is out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday. She's packing a six-shooter. Come on, she knows better.

This from a guy who has been anti-gun until he ran for President. Here is his NRA questionaire from his days as an Illinois state senator.

http://www.savetheguns.com/PDF_Files/amended_obama_iviquestionaire_091096.pdf

He said he is in favor of banning the manufacture, sale and possession of all handguns.

If anything, Obama is out of touch with gun owners, not Hillary. She has been very clear on the second amendment and Obama has not. His sexist attempt at ridiculing her today will backfire (pun intended).

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFan-inTexas

I guess what ticks me off about it is that, although he may be telling the truth "as HE sees it," stating that people "cling" to religion is what gets me the most. "Cling" to religion? From a self portrayed "Christian?"

Please define "Cling to religion" Mr. Obama. Other than these most recent comments, I rather like the man, enough to have vote for him.

I applaud someone for speaking their mind, as he has done often and eloquently, but these last statements give me cause for some concern.

I appreciate that "clinging" can have a negative sound to it.  But it is not necessarily negative.  After all, to cling simply means to resist separation, to holdfast, to adhere.  The bible itself says that we should "cling to what is good."  It says that a man shall leave his parents and "cling to his wife."  How is that negative?  While one might interpret his words to sound like some desperate attempt to grasp at something, I think his intent was that people simply cling to what they hold dear, to what gives them solace, when all else has failed them.

[pmcalk]

You right, RM, Hillary's consistent position on the Second Amendment has earned her an F- (I didn't think there was something that low) from the Gun Owner's of America.  Not that I have a problem with that.  But it does seem a bit odd that, immediately after Obama's comments, Clinton starts drinking whiskey and talking about shooting ducks.  Maybe since she's losing ground with women, she feels the need to connect with more male voters.

[Bledsoe]

"If [Republicans] could cut funding for Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the environment, middle-class Americans would see fewer benefits from their tax dollars, feel more resentful paying taxes, and become even more receptive to their appeals for tax cuts and their strategy of waging campaigns on divisive social and cultural issues like abortion, gay rights, and guns."

-- Bill Clinton, in his 2004 memoirs, My Life, making the same argument as Sen. Barack Obama.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/04/13/historical_quote_of_the_day.html

[Bledsoe]

http://www.bittervoters.org/


Bitter Voters For Obama
Bitter, and proud of it. Clinton says we're 'resilient,' but we can't take it any more. McCain says 'let em eat Lemons,' but what we really need is a leader who can turn lemons into lemonade: Barack Obama.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

You right, RM, Hillary's consistent position on the Second Amendment has earned her an F- (I didn't think there was something that low) from the Gun Owner's of America.  Not that I have a problem with that.  But it does seem a bit odd that, immediately after Obama's comments, Clinton starts drinking whiskey and talking about shooting ducks.  Maybe since she's losing ground with women, she feels the need to connect with more male voters.

If that is her new tactic then we should be prepared for more cleavage, high heels and bedroom eyes.[] I thought the video of her throwing back boilermakers was....strange.

[cannon_fodder]

RM, I call shenanigans.   While many on this board have gone after Hillary for many things, Obama has not come close to attacking Hillary to the extent she has jumped on this.  Every other comment last night was an attack on Obama for his "bitter" remarks.  

My favorite was:

quote:Clinton said
The worst part is, Senator Obama has failed to own up to those remarks.

Really?  Maybe he just misspoke.    Hillary accusing someone else of a failure to own up is just fantastic.  Also note that "attacking" Hillary (actually I'm commenting on her attack on Obama but...) is an ancillary response by most people in this thread - not the response.


Obama screwed up, no doubt about that.  He had a clear path to victory and gave some fodder to Hillary to throw against him.  Whether this is the screw up Clinton needed to get back in the game or not, I don't know.  I do know that I did not find his comments offensive nor inaccurate having had plenty of contact with, in and around small towns in Iowa.

[RecycleMichael]

Obama hasn't attacked Hillary? What kind of selective hearing do you have?

"Hillary Clinton. She knows better. Shame on her."

"She's packing a six-shooter. Come on... I want to see that picture of her out there in the duck blind."

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Obama hasn't attacked Hillary? What kind of selective hearing do you have?

quote:I really said
Obama has not come close to attacking Hillary to the extent she has jumped on this.

Huge difference there.  Obama certainly made a point to reference her harrowing escape from sniper fire - but few have accused him of harping on it.  This is her new talking point.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFan-inTexas

I guess what ticks me off about it is that, although he may be telling the truth "as HE sees it," stating that people "cling" to religion is what gets me the most. "Cling" to religion? From a self portrayed "Christian?"

Please define "Cling to religion" Mr. Obama. Other than these most recent comments, I rather like the man, enough to have vote for him.

I applaud someone for speaking their mind, as he has done often and eloquently, but these last statements give me cause for some concern.

Clutch the crutch and join the out of touch!
http://baldwinparkdemocrat.blogspot.com/2008/04/whos-elitist-and-out-of-touch.html

Conservatives' Hate-Based Campaign Against Obama

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=conservatives_hate_based_campaign_against_obama

"The right-wing smear campaign against Barack Obama has already begun. Conservatives intend, as they have so many times before, to appeal to Americans' ugliest prejudices and most craven fears. "  

"The Republicans are certainly setting down their marker: they intend, as they have so many times before, to wage a campaign appealing to the ugliest prejudices, the most craven fears, the most vile hatreds. It's not that people should vote against Obama just because he's black, they're saying, but you know, he's that kind of black. As Rush Limbaugh said on Friday, "It is clear that Senator Obama has disowned his white half, that he's decided he's got to go all in on the black side." Ladies and gentlemen, your "moral values" party. "

"But faced the possibility that they might actually lose the White House to a black man, there's no doubt what many on the right are preparing to do. Racial reconciliation can wait for another day; there's power at stake. And if stoking racism is what it takes, then that's what they'll do. "


"Some things take so long
But how do I explain
When not too many people
Can see we're all the same
And because of all their tears
Their eyes can't hope to see
The beauty that surrounds them
Isn't it a pity"
G. Harrison
"

[Bledsoe]

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death," Bill Clinton was quoted saying by the Los Angeles Times in September 1991.

"You know, he [Bush] wants to divide us over race. I'm from the South. I understand this. This quota deal they're gonna pull in the next election is the same old scam they've been pulling on us for decade after decade after decade. When their economic policies fail, when the country's coming apart rather than coming together, what do they do? They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them. They know if they can keep us looking at each other across a racial divide, if I can look at Bobby Rush and think, Bobby wants my job, my promotion, then neither of us can look at George Bush and say, 'What happened to everybody's job? What happened to everybody's income? What ... have ... you ... done ... to ... our ... country?'"

A couple months later, Joe Klein, writing for the Sunday Times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/bill-clinton-flashback-al_n_96433.html

Bill and Obama sound like they are saying pretty much the same thing.  On the other hand Bill and Hill have not been on the same page as of late........ NAFTA....Columbia Fred Trade......
now "bitter" white folks.