One week to Pennsylvania Primary

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

But Gas, Lee fought with his entire heart for what he believed in (his home, Virginia).  He was a great tactician and leader by all accounts a true gentlemen.  After the war he was the leading voice for reconciliation.

Hillary is clearly not a great tactician as she had no plan for failure on Super Tuesday.  She fights for Hillary, pandering to whatever interest seems to suit the moment  - not for any cause.  I have never heard her accused of having strong leadership credentials and I doubt she will be a lead voice in the party she has sworn to tear apart if need be to get her power.

I original wrote Lee instead of "Confederacy,"  but I have a lot of respect for Lee.

Excellent point.  She feels entitled to this position.  Some humility would serve her well.

[FOTD]

Well we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line.

Well our fathers fought the Second World War
Spent their weekends on the Jersey Shore
Met our mothers at the USO
Asked them to dance
Danced with them slow
And we're living here in Allentown.

But the restlessness was handed down
And it's getting very hard to staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
aaaaaaah aaahhhhh ooooooooh ooooooh ohhhhhhh.

Well we're waiting here in Allentown
For the Pennsylvania we never found
For the promises our teachers gave
If we worked hard
If we behaved.

So the graduations hang on the wall
But they never really helped us at all
No they never taught us what was real
Iron and coke,
Chromium steel.

And we're waiting here in Allentown.
But they've taken all the coal from the ground
And the union people crawled awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah aaaaaaaaaaah aaaaaah.

Every child had a pretty good shot
To get at least as far as their old man got.
Something happened on the way to that place
They threw an American flag in our faaaaaaaace, oh oh oh.

Well I'm living here in Allentown
And it's hard to keep a good man down.
But I won't be getting up todaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy
aaaaaaaaaaah aaaaaaaaaaah aaaaaaaaah.

aaaaaaah aaaaaaah aaaaaaah oh oh oh.

And it's getting very hard to staaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

And we're living here in Allentown.
BILLY JOEL


Now, does that paint a clearer picture for you, professor?

[bokworker]

I dunno... I always thought Billie Joel sounded "bitter" in that song...

[FOTD]

Yes! And it's a bitter town now.

bfd RM bfd....

scuse me while I nod out during her "acceptance" speech.

[FOTD]

It was no blowout.....

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Clinton_Voting_for_McCain_foolish.html
April 22, 2008
Categories: Hillary Clinton

Clinton: Voting for McCain 'foolish'


"Clinton, speaking to reporters in Conshohocken just now, said she'd campaign for a united Democratic Party, no matter who's the nominee.

"Anybody who supports Barack or me would be very foolish to think voting for Senator McCain makes any sense," she said.

"Whatever differences Senator Obama and I may have...that pales in comprison with the differences we have with Senator McCain," she said earlier."


Good for Hillary for she is starting to sound calmly supportive of change and hope. No blowout, but we're finally hearing the air coming out of that tire....

"We will take back the White House and we will take back our country." H.R. Clinton (future supreme).

[USRufnex]

NEW YORK TIMES
April 23, 2008
Editorial
The Low Road to Victory

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/opinion/23wed1.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The Pennsylvania campaign, which produced yet another inconclusive result on Tuesday, was even meaner, more vacuous, more desperate, and more filled with pandering than the mean, vacuous, desperate, pander-filled contests that preceded it.

Voters are getting tired of it; it is demeaning the political process; and it does not work. It is past time for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to acknowledge that the negativity, for which she is mostly responsible, does nothing but harm to her, her opponent, her party and the 2008 election.

If nothing else, self interest should push her in that direction. Mrs. Clinton did not get the big win in Pennsylvania that she needed to challenge the calculus of the Democratic race. It is true that Senator Barack Obama outspent her 2-to-1. But Mrs. Clinton and her advisers should mainly blame themselves, because, as the political operatives say, they went heavily negative and ended up squandering a good part of what was once a 20-point lead.

On the eve of this crucial primary, Mrs. Clinton became the first Democratic candidate to wave the bloody shirt of 9/11. A Clinton television ad — torn right from Karl Rove's playbook — evoked the 1929 stock market crash, Pearl Harbor, the Cuban missile crisis, the cold war and the 9/11 attacks, complete with video of Osama bin Laden. "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen," the narrator intoned.

If that was supposed to bolster Mrs. Clinton's argument that she is the better prepared to be president in a dangerous world, she sent the opposite message on Tuesday morning by declaring in an interview on ABC News that if Iran attacked Israel while she were president: "We would be able to totally obliterate them."

By staying on the attack and not engaging Mr. Obama on the substance of issues like terrorism, the economy and how to organize an orderly exit from Iraq, Mrs. Clinton does more than just turn off voters who don't like negative campaigning. She undercuts the rationale for her candidacy that led this page and others to support her: that she is more qualified, right now, to be president than Mr. Obama.

Mr. Obama is not blameless when it comes to the negative and vapid nature of this campaign. He is increasingly rising to Mrs. Clinton's bait, undercutting his own claims that he is offering a higher more inclusive form of politics. When she criticized his comments about "bitter" voters, Mr. Obama mocked her as an Annie Oakley wannabe. All that does is remind Americans who are on the fence about his relative youth and inexperience.

No matter what the high-priced political operatives (from both camps) may think, it is not a disadvantage that Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton share many of the same essential values and sensible policy prescriptions. It is their strength, and they are doing their best to make voters forget it. And if they think that only Democrats are paying attention to this spectacle, they're wrong.

After seven years of George W. Bush's failed with-us-or-against-us presidency, all American voters deserve to hear a nuanced debate — right now and through the general campaign — about how each candidate will combat terrorism, protect civil liberties, address the housing crisis and end the war in Iraq.

It is getting to be time for the superdelegates to do what the Democrats had in mind with they created superdelegates: settle a bloody race that cannot be won at the ballot box. Mrs. Clinton once had a big lead among the party elders, but has been steadily losing it, in large part because of her negative campaign. If she is ever to have a hope of persuading these most loyal of Democrats to come back to her side, let alone win over the larger body of voters, she has to call off the dogs.

[RecycleMichael]

I just got home from the Drillers game and it looks like my predictions are all coming true.  According to MSNBC, with 90% of the vote in, she is 206,000 votes ahead and has a double digit lead.

I know you Obama fans don't want to be disturbed with reality, but your candidate just got beat badly.

Why can't Obama win any of the big states?
Why can't Obama win any of the swing states?
Why can't Obama win, even when he outspends his opponent by three to one margins?

What is wrong with Obama that so many regular democrats vote against him?

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I just got home from the Drillers game and it looks like my predictions are all coming true.  According to MSNBC, with 90% of the vote in, she is 206,000 votes ahead and has a double digit lead.

I know you Obama fans don't want to be disturbed with reality, but your candidate just got beat badly.

Why can't Obama win any of the big states?
Why can't Obama win any of the swing states?
Why can't Obama win, even when he outspends his opponent by three to one margins?

What is wrong with Obama that so many regular democrats vote against him?

RM, I know you're just bating, but your comment about "regular democrats" seriously offend me.  Are you saying that only small town, white, older women are "regular democrats?"  Because one of the key reasons why I am a democrat is because we embrace so many groups, and each group is just as vital to our party.

Hillary Clinton and her group have persisted in offending just about every group, apart from religious gun owners.  They have offended young people as being "foolish" or "drinking koolaid" because they support Obama.  They have offended African Americans.  They have offended the more liberal wing of the Democratic party.  Each and every group of democrats is just as "regular" and just as important to any success in November.

So, I'll turn the tables.  What is wrong with Hillary Clinton that she cannot garner even 30% of the African American vote?  Why can't she get the young vote?  Why can't she inspire new voters, ones that have never participated in an election?  Why can she not get the more educated vote?  The wealthier vote?  Why can't she get more independent votes?

Your candidate did well tonight, better than I expected.  In her native state, with a popular governor and mayor backing her, with demographics that suit her, she still lost a lot of ground in the last 6 weeks.  This, despite what was a significant mistatement by her opponent.  Ultimately, what you have is two very strong candidates, one who appeals to the blue collar voter, and one who appeals to everyone else.  I expect that neither will significantly cut into the other one's demographics as long as the choice between the two remains.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Yes! And it's a bitter town now.

bfd RM bfd....

scuse me while I nod out during her "acceptance" speech.

If life were a song, you'd be in ****-heaven FOTD. []

I think it was the economic policies of Carter which sank Allentown, if you were implying that it's the fault of the Busheviks.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:

Hillary Clinton and her group have persisted in offending just about every group, apart from religious gun owners.  They have offended young people as being "foolish" or "drinking koolaid" because they support Obama.  They have offended African Americans.  They have offended the more liberal wing of the Democratic party.  Each and every group of democrats is just as "regular" and just as important to any success in November.

Mel Brooks isn't one of her consultants is he?  Almost sounds like one of his movies- something to offend everyone.  [}:)]

Originally posted by pmcalk

So, I'll turn the tables.  What is wrong with Hillary Clinton that she cannot garner even 30% of the African American vote?  Why can't she get the young vote?  Why can't she inspire new voters, ones that have never participated in an election?  Why can she not get the more educated vote?  The wealthier vote?  Why can't she get more independent votes?

Come on now, PM, that one's just about a no-brainer.

I'll say what everyone else seems too afraid to say:  Obama wins when it comes to black, single-issue voters for whom race is the single issue.  

There are going to be lots of black people mobilized to vote for a serious black candidate.  It's finally happened- they have a candidate who isn't a race pimp like $harpton or Jack$on, or an Uncle Tom-ish, carpet-bagging creation of the GOP like Alan Keyes.  

Obama represents the opportunities which resulted from the CRA's, It's almost poetic that he was born the same year JFK took office.  Men like Wright, $harpton, and Jack$on are old enough to remember segregated America and still use those visions to try and convince others there's still a race war.  Hillary would have done well to take a pass on Wright, but she didn't.

McCain would do well to keep anything about race or Rev. Wright out of the campaign, assuming Obama wins the nomination.  All that's going to do is mobilize more angry black people to vote against him.  

Obama would do well to resist getting sucked into a slander war with another candidate, but I personally cannot imagine the pressure and how sick and tired someone would be of constant scruitiny and criticism.

I'd hope record numbers of blacks turn out at the polls this year and take part in our election process.  To me, single-issue voters are as unnerving as party-liners, but if it only took one issue to get someone to take part in their governance, think about it, and begin take more interest in it instead of taking for granted others will choose for them, then so be it.

By the same token, there are others who might be mobilized to vote for the first time because they feel threatened by having a black President, or that having a President who had Muslim schooling is opening the back door for terrorists. His race could work for or against him.  It stands to reason, it's going to work for him amongst black voters.  He's got a little baggage to overcome, I can see why it's a valid concern of half the Democrat party.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I just got home from the Drillers game and it looks like my predictions are all coming true.  According to MSNBC, with 90% of the vote in, she is 206,000 votes ahead and has a double digit lead.

Actually, it wasn't a double-digit win.

With 99 percent of the precincts in, it's 54.70 percent of the vote for Clinton, and 45.30 percent for Obama.

That's a 9.4 percent margin, with a few Obama stronghold precincts that haven't reported in the Philadelphia metro.

That doesn't even *round up* to 10 percent.

The Hillary camp and Ed Rendell and just about everyone else said Hillary needed a "big" victory to stay in the race.

Not even breaking the 10-percent mark in victory margin isn't a big win by any stretch.

She's going to pick up a small number of delegates, and then promptly will lose them again in North Carolina.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I just got home from the Drillers game and it looks like my predictions are all coming true.  According to MSNBC, with 90% of the vote in, she is 206,000 votes ahead and has a double digit lead.

Actually, it wasn't a double-digit win.

With 99 percent of the precincts in, it's 54.70 percent of the vote for Clinton, and 45.30 percent for Obama.

That's a 9.4 percent margin, with a few Obama stronghold precincts that haven't reported in the Philadelphia metro.

That doesn't even *round up* to 10 percent.

The Hillary camp and Ed Rendell and just about everyone else said Hillary needed a "big" victory to stay in the race.

Not even breaking the 10-percent mark in victory margin isn't a big win by any stretch.

She's going to pick up a small number of delegates, and then promptly will lose them again in North Carolina.

Pretty much she won was much as people expected she was going to win.  I'd say a Pennsylvania victory for Hillary was already priced in to this primary; she had to win by a landslide or lose by a landslide to change perceptions.  Neither happened, so we're pretty much back where we were.

[RecycleMichael]

You guys are sure hard to convince.

Obama campaigned hard. He spent six weeks in the state. He spent more money in Pennsylvania than in any other state, probably a record for a presidential candidate.

And he lost big.

Tell me why you are not worried.

[Hometown]

Question:  What is wrong with Hillary Clinton that she cannot garner even 30% of the African American vote?
Answer:  The Clintons were adored by Blacks (and will be again) but she is running against the most successful Black candidate to date.

Question:  Why can't she get the young vote?
Answer:  In the last two presidential elections there was a lot of early support from young people, but they didn't show up on Election Day.

Question:  Why can't she inspire new voters, ones that have never participated in an election?
Answer:  She is drawing new voters, and she is drawing the support of many women who understand that a woman's strength is found in cooperation with other women.  Pmcalk, you are letting your sisters down by passing up the historic opportunity to break up the men's club.

Question:  Why can she not get the more educated vote? The wealthier vote?
Answer:  As Bill Clinton pointed out some people need a president more than other.  The Bourgeoisie can weather most storms.  The far left wing of our party lives in La La Land.  But they don't count for much in the general population.

Question:  Why can't she get more independent votes?  
Answer:  Because she is an advocate for the Democrat's core values.  And she can bring home the Reagan Democrats giving us a voting majority that will make swing voters irrelevant.

Did you hear Obama's speech last night?  He has lost his focus.  Obama is a slow motion train wreck.  How do you spell Dukakis II?  O B A M A.

The Clintons are the only living winners in our party.  Throw that away and be prepared to be held responsible for major train wreck.

[Breadburner]

Obama is African-American....Maybe when he needs to be...All I see is an empty suit....