One week to Pennsylvania Primary

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Obama is African-American....Maybe when he needs to be...All I see is an empty suit....

You and Bill can play that Caucasian Card.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Clinton by +10%. 81 delegates to Obamas 77.

McCain gets 75% of the vote but 100% of the delegates.

Called it.  [8D]

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Hill dog by 12.....

heh...

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Question:  What is wrong with Hillary Clinton that she cannot garner even 30% of the African American vote?
Answer:  The Clintons were adored by Blacks (and will be again) but she is running against the most successful Black candidate to date.

I wouldn't be so sure about "will be again."  She and her husband have really offended a lot of blacks.  And if the nomination goes, not to the person with the most votes, the most delegates, and the most states, but to another person based on her ability to attrack white, gun-owning blue collars, I suspect they won't be too happy.

quote:

Question:  Why can't she get the young vote?
Answer:  In the last two presidential elections there was a lot of early support from young people, but they didn't show up on Election Day.

Maybe because no body paid any attention to them?  Maybe because they feel as though no one hears them, or takes their positions seriously?  Maybe because candidates imply they are foolish?

quote:
Question:  Why can't she inspire new voters, ones that have never participated in an election?
Answer:  She is drawing new voters, and she is drawing the support of many women who understand that a woman's strength is found in cooperation with other women.  Pmcalk, you are letting your sisters down by passing up the historic opportunity to break up the men's club.

You have said this to me before, and frankly it bugs me.  I guess I missed the feminist memo that states we had to vote only for women.  My mom was a feminist who taught me that feminism was about everyone being able to make choices, about changing the values and course of dialogue in our country.  It is not simply about elevating any woman to a position of authority.  It also bugs me how Hillary has implied that all negative comments against her are rooted in sexism.  Part of being equal means to recognize that people can dislike you and it has nothing to do with your sex.  Could you imagine if Obama began to imply that media was treating him unfairly because he was black?

I find it ironic that you imply that the only reason blacks vote for Obama is because he is black, yet you say that I should vote for Hillary simply because she is a women.  

quote:
Question:  Why can she not get the more educated vote? The wealthier vote?
Answer:  As Bill Clinton pointed out some people need a president more than other.  The Bourgeoisie can weather most storms.  The far left wing of our party lives in La La Land.  But they don't count for much in the general population.

I assume that we are talking about MoveOn, who, like the majority of Americans, opposes the Iraq war.  Moveon, which was formed to defend Hillary's husband from the ridiculous impeachment hearings.

So we need presidents for certain groups of people, but not others?  How about if we elect different presidents for different groups?  A red state president, a blue state president, a president for gays, for the liberal elite, for the christian right....  Apparently, you think that only certain voices should be heard.  How democratic of you.  

quote:
Question:  Why can't she get more independent votes?  
Answer:  Because she is an advocate for the Democrat's core values.  And she can bring home the Reagan Democrats giving us a voting majority that will make swing voters irrelevant.

Voting for the war, disparaging blacks & their church, labeling democrats as "elitist" and out-of-touch, claiming to be a friend of gun owners--not democratic "core" values, if you ask me.

quote:
Did you hear Obama's speech last night?  He has lost his focus.  Obama is a slow motion train wreck.  How do you spell Dukakis II?  O B A M A.

The Clintons are the only living winners in our party.  Throw that away and be prepared to be held responsible for major train wreck.

We must have listened to different speeches.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

You guys are sure hard to convince.

Obama campaigned hard. He spent six weeks in the state. He spent more money in Pennsylvania than in any other state, probably a record for a presidential candidate.

And he lost big.

Tell me why you are not worried.

Obama isn't worried. He knew that winning in Pennsylvania, with its demographics, would be nearly impossible.

He has the lead in states won, total votes and delegates, and Hillary's fast running out of time to catch up.

He's going to win in North Carolina and erase any gain Hillary had from winning Pennsylvania.

If anyone should be worried, it's Clinton supporters.

Aren't you worried, RM? []

[RecycleMichael]

Of course. I have been worried that my candidate might not win for two months now.

Obama is a great candidate, but last month evrybody was counting eleven state victories in a row a coronation for Obama. Almost every Obama supporter on this forum called for her to drop out of the race. Now she has almost caught back up with Obama in popular vote and polls show that she is a stronger candidate against McCain.

The hundreds of uncommitted superdelegates now will have a good reason to pick either Hillary or Obama. While Obama is picking them up faster than Hillary, she is still ahead in superdelegate count.

On a related note, almost all of the Oklahoma superdelegates are still undecided. Governor Henry just announced he was for Obama. Oklahoma was carried by Hillary 55% to 31%. An Oklahoma superdelegate and elected official should not ignore such a mandate from his constituents.

If Obama people haven't been worried, they should start now and avoid the rush.

[rwarn17588]

I see that I can bait RM as well as he can bait others.

[]

And being 600,000 votes behind in the popular vote is hardly what I would call being "almost caught up."

Henry is under no obligation to follow his state's constituents. The superdelegates are explicitly told to "use their own judgment." He has.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

An Oklahoma superdelegate and elected official should not ignore such a mandate from his constituents.

But RM, isn't ignoring constituents and voting for Hillary what you are relying on?

Unless she gets 70+% of the remaining vote, you'll need to retract that statement and encourage super delegates to vote for Hillary in spite of whatever votes actually took place.

[Gaspar]

"Obama can't close the deal"
The new line from the Hillary campaign.

Shall we analyze the psychology behind that statement?
There is something disturbing there.

Also, is anyone bothering to do the math or are you just reveling in the spin?  This win means nearly nothing.
Because of the Democratic Party's proportional-representation rules, her win stands to give her a net gain of 10 to 15 delegates. That means that Barack Obama will fall from a lead of 161 in elected delegates to about 145.

After Indiana and North Carolina he will still lead by between 100 and 150.

Pelosi and Dean are pushing Super-Delegates to make up their minds and state their intentions.  Know Why?  (this is hilarious. . .)

Dean gets to appoint an additional 60 or so super delegates before the conference.  If he knows the intension of existing super-delegates He and Pelosi may have the power to change the outcome, by careful choice of remaining delegates, without causing a war at the convention.

This is the best soap opera I have ever seen!  It will end up being a movie!  Mark my words!  

I bet 99% of voters don't even understand what is happening right in front of them!

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

An Oklahoma superdelegate and elected official should not ignore such a mandate from his constituents.

But RM, isn't ignoring constituents and voting for Hillary what you are relying on?

Unless she gets 70+% of the remaining vote, you'll need to retract that statement and encourage super delegates to vote for Hillary in spite of whatever votes actually took place.

70% ?!?  But the media said all Hillary had to do was win by double-digits, 55-45... and, of course, we all know the media's in the tank for Obama.

/sarcasm.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588
...And being 600,000 votes behind in the popular vote is hardly what I would call being "almost caught up."

I know that you like to round up for Obama and round down for Clinton...According to this website...Clinton is now ahead in popular vote. Obama gets to count the estimated totals in Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington and Hillary gets to count Michigan and Florida. Don't say that Michigan and Florida popular votes don't count. They may not be counted for assigning delegates, but those citizens still voted.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Hillary is now ahead in popular vote by 11,721 votes. Obama has been ahead for months and now Hillary is ahead. If Obama doesn't win North Carolina, he is through. Two weeks is forever in campaigns. I would worry if I were you.

[FOTD]

Floreeduh and Penn are mostly old white bigots.

Funny how mourning Joe and Pat Nixonite are continuing to banter about Billary still being alive. Keeping Hilldog alive is theirs and faux netwerks' last opportunity to beat the dems in November.

On to the new millineum....

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Floreeduh and Penn are mostly old white bigots.

Funny how mourning Joe and Pat Nixonite are continuing to banter about Billary still being alive. Keeping Hilldog alive is theirs and faux netwerks' last opportunity to beat the dems in November.

On to the new millineum....

Are you truly this retarded?  I honestly feel sorry for Obama that people like you support him.

Is anyone else around here tired of hearing this jackass call everyone under the sun a racist or a bigot?

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588
...And being 600,000 votes behind in the popular vote is hardly what I would call being "almost caught up."

I know that you like to round up for Obama and round down for Clinton...According to this website...Clinton is now ahead in popular vote. Obama gets to count the estimated totals in Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington and Hillary gets to count Michigan and Florida. Don't say that Michigan and Florida popular votes don't count. They may not be counted for assigning delegates, but those citizens still voted.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Hillary is now ahead in popular vote by 11,721 votes. Obama has been ahead for months and now Hillary is ahead. If Obama doesn't win North Carolina, he is through. Two weeks is forever in campaigns. I would worry if I were you.

That's extremely dishonest from you, RM, because Obama wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.

Remember, because Florida and Michigan broke the rules, those primaries won't be counted. You know that.

Even if you take away Michigan and include the dubious claim of Florida, Obama is 200,000 votes ahead. Include the caucus totals, and it jumps up to 300,000.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588
...And being 600,000 votes behind in the popular vote is hardly what I would call being "almost caught up."

I know that you like to round up for Obama and round down for Clinton...According to this website...Clinton is now ahead in popular vote. Obama gets to count the estimated totals in Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington and Hillary gets to count Michigan and Florida. Don't say that Michigan and Florida popular votes don't count. They may not be counted for assigning delegates, but those citizens still voted.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Hillary is now ahead in popular vote by 11,721 votes. Obama has been ahead for months and now Hillary is ahead. If Obama doesn't win North Carolina, he is through. Two weeks is forever in campaigns. I would worry if I were you.

Hillary is only ahead in popular vote if you don't count Iowa, Nevada, Maine & Washington (which haven't released official numbers yet), if you count only those votes in favor of Clinton in Michigan's unconstitutional election, and if you throw in Florida's vote.  Once you include the estimates from Nevada, Iowa, Maine & Washington, the votes are virtually tied, even under your grossly unfair scenerio.