Tulsa tax payers to fund Hornets

[cannon_fodder]

Well, I'd love to say this caught me by surprise, but from day one I have held out that the $150,000,000 they extorted from Oklahoma City tax payers would not be enough.  The "Quality Jobs Act" is being amended to specifically include the Hornets on the benefits list to the tune of about $60,000,000.00 of tax payer money.

ENGROSSED HOUSE AMENDMENT
   TO
ENGROSSED SENATE BILL NO. 1819    By:   Coffee and Morgan of the Senate            and Benge of the House
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2007-08bills/HB/SB1819_HASB.RTF


Step 1) We have to move the team from Seattle because the facilities and support is not there!

2) OKC, give us $150,000,000 for better facilities.

3) Oklahoma City can support a team, plus with Tulsa we are a fairly large market and will do well!  Grant us rights to move the team.

4) Oklahoma City is too small of a market to be profitable, we need incentives to bring pro sports to Oklahoma.

I call BS.  All over the place.  The quality jobs program was not create to use tax payer money to subsidize paychecks for millionaires on behalf of owner billionaires.  In fact, it doesn't even allow this use - so they are amending it so they can...

THE WORST PART IS, the way they are amending it basically eliminates the possibility that Joe Public would ever figure it out:

Amend SB 1819 - The quality jobs act define "basic industry" to include:

quote:
(12)   those activities defined or classified in the NAICS Manual under U.S. Industry No. 711211 (2007 version),

711211 is Pro Sports Franchises, which of course would ONLY apply to the Hornets.  Basically, they are getting a subsidy added specifically for them written in to law.  

Not only do they get language adding them to the list of "basic industry" that allows them to get credit for job creation, but they get to redefine how much they qualify for... and this provision also ONLY applies to them:

quote:
...provided, with respect to an establishment defined or classified in the NAICS Manual under U.S. Industry No. 711211 (2007 version), the term "gross payroll" shall include the entire amount of wages paid by the establishment to its employees in new direct jobs regardless of whether Oklahoma income tax is or will be due on such wages;

The team gets credit for payroll taxes paid to other states or not paid at all.  If the NBA star has a 6 month residence in Dallas and does not claim residence in Oklahoma, he does not pay Oklahoma income tax.  But the team gets credit for all payroll, whether or not Oklahoma taxes are paid on it.

This is a specific law drafted to give $4,000,000 a year to one company to create 170 jobs that may or may not pay any tax in Oklahoma.  Do the math, the State would be paying $23,530 PER YEAR per job.  How much do we pay per job to other employers under the program and did we exempt them from having to actual pay Oklahoma taxes too?

Scrap this deal.  If we have an extra $4,000,000 a year to throw away lets hire 90 new teachers, 60 new police officers, commission some artwork, or god forbid fix a bridge or two each year.
- - -

Oklahoma City can have their NBA team, but Tulsa doesn't need to subsidize Oklahoma City more than we already do.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/04/14/bc.bkn.supersonics.quality.ap/

http://www.edmondsun.com/opinion/local_story_105134928.html?keyword=topstory

[Curmudgeon]

The Hornets aren't moving to OKC.  It's the Sonics.

Does "Pro Sports Franchises" not apply to minor league teams such as the Drillers, Oilers, etc?

[davidglover]

Oklahoma House and Senate are getting close to giving away $100 million dollars without need.  I have detailed votes, documents, etc about all this at www.reverserobinhood.com

[YoungTulsan]

Screw all that, NE Oklahoma needs to secede from the state

[Curmudgeon]

Like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Sequoyah

[TulsaSooner]

quote:Originally posted by Curmudgeon

The Hornets aren't moving to OKC.  It's the Sonics.

Does "Pro Sports Franchises" not apply to minor league teams such as the Drillers, Oilers, etc?

It does in regards to the sales tax exemption so I would assume so, yeah.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Screw all that, NE Oklahoma needs to secede from the state

True dat.

[waterboy]

Seems like its just a matter of scale. This forum is gung ho to consider subsidizing the Drillers just so they don't go to Jenks. Well, in OKC they think bigger.

[buzz words]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Seems like its just a matter of scale. This forum is gung ho to consider subsidizing the Drillers just so they don't go to Jenks. Well, in OKC they think bigger.

?  please elaborate

[Noodlez]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Screw all that, NE Oklahoma needs to secede from the state

True dat.

count me in.  Was there not talk of this back in the 80s? or have I been on the sauce to long now?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Seems like its just a matter of scale. This forum is gung ho to consider subsidizing the Drillers just so they don't go to Jenks. Well, in OKC they think bigger.

And use money from the rest of the state.

[Renaissance]

I should hope they plan on playing a couple of games per season at the BOK.  If they want to count Tulsa as part of the market and have us subsidize the team, they should play here too.  I guarantee those games will sell out.

[Breadburner]

You ain't $hit unless you have pro sports.....Good for Okc and I hate pro-basketball for the most part....

[cannon_fodder]

No, it does not apply to the Drillers or other franchises.  It is tailored to only apply to a new Franchise with significant payroll employing a certain number of people - aka, a new NBA team in OKC.

1) I don't care if it's the Hornets, the Sonics, or the Turds moving to OKC... the point stands.

2) As stated above, NO, it does not apply to other franchises because they are not defined as "quality jobs" nor new.  Just the new NBA team.

3) Waterboy:  
Oklahoma City can subsidize a team for Oklahoma City all they want... just as Tulsa can subsidize the Drillers if we wanted.  But Tulsa is not asking OKC to chip in towards $4 million a year for our entertainment.

For that matter, the discussion is on an ancillary subsidy on the facility... not payroll.  The facility could be used for something else and rent would be collected.  I'd be complaining just as loudly if we were going to cover the Driller's payroll for George Kaiser to help ensure him profits.

4)

quote:You ain't $hit unless you have pro sports.....Good for Okc and I hate pro-basketball for the most part....

Cool, so now the state is in the business of making sure we are the sh!t.  $4mil a year for the NBA, what?  $6mil a year to get an MLB team in Tulsa, better get some kind of pro sports team in the Western part of the state... it would need a bigger subsidy but $10mil a year for pro soccer in Altus seems like it would make us even cooler.

$4,000,000 a year could help make Oklahoma the sh!t by subsidizing education (full ride scholarships to 500 Oklahoman's to any State School), fixing bridges, or any number of things.
- - -

It boils down to this:  Why should the State of Oklahoma be in the business of subsidizing the salaries of millionaires in order to passively entertain a small percentage of the population and help gaurantee profits for a couple billionaire business owners?

$4,000,000 a year basically boils down to $1,350,000 a year from the Tulsa area to fund the payroll of a sports team.  What of our city departments, charities, parks, or other necessary items doesn't need that Million + dollars such that we can go ahead and give it away to some guys who are really good at bouncing a ball?

I don't get it.  Yay, Oklahoma City is big time so by extension Tulsa is kinda-sorta-close to a city that is big time.  We rock!

[waterboy]

The old joke about the prostitute applies here. Man offers woman $20 bucks for private services. Woman replies, "What do you think I am? A common street whore?" Man replies, "We're not talking profession here. We're negotiating price."

We're asking Tulsan's of all stripes, whether they go downtown to watch sports or not, to help defray the cost of building and operating a sports stadium for private owners who are entertaining offers from another city to do the same. We're in the same "profession" just not as aggressive.