Heads up, part deux: Panhandler Blues and Beer

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....

Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....

Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.

You a smart boy..You learn quick....[]

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

There is no law against panhandling.  Sorry.  Freedom of speech.  A constitutional thing.

You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg.  Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.

but if the police wanted to they could get them for loitering.  Better yet, disturbing the peace.  They arrest people who are drunk walking down brookside for that. Why not arrest some SOB is shouting obscenities at you causing a scene at a convienence store?

The buisness could put a tresspass on them....

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

There is no law against panhandling.  Sorry.  Freedom of speech.  A constitutional thing.

You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg.  Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.

but if the police wanted to they could get them for loitering.  Better yet, disturbing the peace.  They arrest people who are drunk walking down brookside for that. Why not arrest some SOB is shouting obscenities at you causing a scene at a convienence store?

Loitering is really trespassing, which would have to be a citizens arrest made by the store, which rarely happens (they're potential customers).  A police officer's peace can't be disturbed, so, again, a citizen would have to file charges.

Being drunk in public is against the law.  Shouting obscenities could be iffy.  That pesky freedom of speech thing again.  I doubt a prosecutor would agree to file that one.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

There is no law against panhandling.  Sorry.  Freedom of speech.  A constitutional thing.

You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg.  Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.

but if the police wanted to they could get them for loitering.  Better yet, disturbing the peace.  They arrest people who are drunk walking down brookside for that. Why not arrest some SOB is shouting obscenities at you causing a scene at a convienence store?

Loitering is really trespassing, which would have to be a citizens arrest made by the store, which rarely happens (they're potential customers).  A police officer's peace can't be disturbed, so, again, a citizen would have to file charges.

Being drunk in public is against the law.  Shouting obscenities could be iffy.  That pesky freedom of speech thing again.  I doubt a prosecutor would agree to file that one.

QT has no problem doing it.  I have seen them do it on several occasions.

If a panhandler is on the street cussing up a storm and causing a scence in front of people, they are going to call police.  The police will ask if they want to file a report and have them arrested.  I have seen this several times as well.  In particular the black guy who is yelling about "GOD" at the QT at Pine and Mingo.  Or the guy who was riding around as santa clause with a big blow up penis behind his bike.  If someone can be cited for playing their music too loud, then this should certainly fall under that realm IMO.  

But yeah OP, stay away from that convienence store.  Go down the street to the QT at 45th and Peoria or 61st and Lewis.  The one at 61st and lewis is nothing but business people for the most part during the day.  And once Metro lets out of school for the day, alot of hot mom's come through!!

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....

Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.

You a smart boy..You learn quick....[]

Besides, i am not comfortable being called racist.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....

Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.

You a smart boy..You learn quick....[]

Besides, i am not comfortable being called racist.

Well just wait FOTD will be along shortly...

[Aa5drvr]

Ive long advocated putting a massive mobile home park at 61st and Peoria.  That way we would create a "Tornado Magnet" and before long the entire area could be subject for rebuilding.

Remember the "Oklahoma Rule."  The one things tornados and divorce have in common is that with either one, you are sure to lose your trailer.....

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

There is no law against panhandling.  Sorry.  Freedom of speech.  A constitutional thing.

You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg.  Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.

That is not correct.

Tulsa City Ordinances, Title 24, §100

quote:A public nuisance consists of unlawfully doing an act or omitting to perform a duty,
which act or omission:
A. Annoys, injures or endangers the safety, health, comfort or repose of others;
B. Offends public decency;
C. Unlawfully interferes with, obstructs or tends to obstruct, or renders
dangerous for passage a lake or basin or any public park, square, alley, highway or street;
or
D. In any way renders other persons insecure in life or in the use of property.

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title24.asp

for a more direct reproach:
Tulsa City Ordinance Title 37, § 1105

quote:SECTION 1105. PEDESTRIANS SOLICITING RIDES, EMPLOYMENT,
BUSINESS, OR CONTRIBUTIONS
No person shall step or stand in the roadway or median used to channel traffic for
the purpose of soliciting a ride, employment, business, or contributions of any kind from
the occupant of any vehicle; provided however, that sworn public safety officers may
solicit contributions for a charitable project officially adopted by their bargaining agents.
Ord. No. 17372

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title37.asp#Chapter10


They can stand with a cup, but if they ASK for money they are a nuisance.   Generally, to avoid issues it (and similar laws) are enforced if they ask twice, not on the first inquiry.

Begging is not political speech.  It is not conveying a message other than it's face value.  The protection of which does little or nothing for the value of democracy, which is the core test for free speech (and why PETA protesters can get naked (or dang close) while drunken college students cant).

Phrase it as a safety rule (can hinder or distract traffic) or as part of nuisance (my right to not be bothered is > than right to beg for money), the "free speech" argument only goes so far.  Certainly the behavior listed at the start of this thread crosses the line to nuisance, harassment, or even intimidation.

There are laws on the books, and as far as I can tell they are simply not enforced.  I understand there are other priorities, just sayin' the perception of downtown and several areas/intersections is severely degraded by bums.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

That area is a shthole...Why didn't you stop at QT at 45th.....

Believe me, I'm going to Quik trip from here on out: they're clean, they're orderly, and they don't seem to take well to panhandlers from what I hear.

You a smart boy..You learn quick....[]

Besides, i am not comfortable being called racist.

Well just wait FOTD will be along shortly...

It's a terrible paradox-if that's the right word. If I go ahead and buy them their beer, then I'm a sucker, and if I don't, then I'm considered a racist.

[unknown]

When I have people coming up to me asking for money, gas, whatever... I just say, show me your tits (guys included). So far nobody has complied, but it usually overwhelms them enough to leave me alone.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by unknown

When I have people coming up to me asking for money, gas, whatever... I just say, show me your tits (guys included). So far nobody has complied, but it usually overwhelms them enough to leave me alone.

If they did, would that make them a solicitor of lewd services?

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

There is no law against panhandling.  Sorry.  Freedom of speech.  A constitutional thing.

You can't aggressively beg and you can't step in the street to beg.  Nothing says you can't hit up someone at a store or go door-to-door.

That is not correct.

Tulsa City Ordinances, Title 24, §100

quote:A public nuisance consists of unlawfully doing an act or omitting to perform a duty,
which act or omission:
A. Annoys, injures or endangers the safety, health, comfort or repose of others;
B. Offends public decency;
C. Unlawfully interferes with, obstructs or tends to obstruct, or renders
dangerous for passage a lake or basin or any public park, square, alley, highway or street;
or
D. In any way renders other persons insecure in life or in the use of property.

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title24.asp

for a more direct reproach:
Tulsa City Ordinance Title 37, § 1105

quote:SECTION 1105. PEDESTRIANS SOLICITING RIDES, EMPLOYMENT,
BUSINESS, OR CONTRIBUTIONS
No person shall step or stand in the roadway or median used to channel traffic for
the purpose of soliciting a ride, employment, business, or contributions of any kind from
the occupant of any vehicle; provided however, that sworn public safety officers may
solicit contributions for a charitable project officially adopted by their bargaining agents.
Ord. No. 17372

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title37.asp#Chapter10


They can stand with a cup, but if they ASK for money they are a nuisance.   Generally, to avoid issues it (and similar laws) are enforced if they ask twice, not on the first inquiry.

Begging is not political speech.  It is not conveying a message other than it's face value.  The protection of which does little or nothing for the value of democracy, which is the core test for free speech (and why PETA protesters can get naked (or dang close) while drunken college students cant).

Phrase it as a safety rule (can hinder or distract traffic) or as part of nuisance (my right to not be bothered is > than right to beg for money), the "free speech" argument only goes so far.  Certainly the behavior listed at the start of this thread crosses the line to nuisance, harassment, or even intimidation.

There are laws on the books, and as far as I can tell they are simply not enforced.  I understand there are other priorities, just sayin' the perception of downtown and several areas/intersections is severely degraded by bums.

Sorry, but no law against begging, unless you AGGRESSIVELY beg.  Aggressive is defined as asking more then once.  That one person who was asked more then once would have to file charges.

There is no law that prohibits someone from asking for money.  I could go door-to-door in any neighborhood and ask for money and nothing the police could do.

Title 37 Section 1105 says you can't step in the street to solicit.  I already said you can't beg in the street.

And, you can ARREST anyone for just about anything.  Doesn't mean they'll be CONVICTED.  Two different things.

[Wilbur]

Professional Panhandler: Girl Pretends to be Homeless to Pocket '$50 an Hour'...

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/84523.html

[tulsascoot]

When I see someone approach me, I ask them for $2 before they ask me for anything. I usually throws them off and they give up on the pitch.

I mean, If they gave it to me, I'd keep it.