TCC Bond Issue Vote 5-13-08

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle



Congratulations to Tulsa on this one for not just blindly passing another bond issue.

PINCH me, I can't believe I'm awake.  

I think I must have fallen asleep watching the 10 O'Clock news, and this must be a dream...

A new tax promoted heavily by the Lorton's World has FAILED?

Wow.  

Miniscule turnout.  

Would have thought that low turnout would favor the Tax Vampires?

Well, the Tax Vampires can just retire back to their crypt, until they feel hungry again......

Soon......?

[}:)]

[TheArtist]

Now, I wasnt for this particular tax. But I am not against all taxes or for all tax cuts. To just paint all taxes as bad period or to paint someone who may be for a tax as "Tax Vampires"  seems a bit extreme and I do not agree with that sentiment.

Just because I was against this tax does not mean I am against all taxes or against possible taxes for college education. I just never heard a convincing argument for it in this case. I think we need to grow our colleges but at this point would prefer it be for OSU Tulsa. Either that or TCC needs to convince me that they are struggling, have done everything they can to max out what they have, show me that there is not an ounce of space or time left in the classrooms, that they have come up with creative solutions, money saving efforts, etc.

Dont just tell me it would be great to have this because of this or that benefit... sure any extra money could be of benefit, would benefit me too... do that, but also convince me that you NEED and deserve it. And if people are convinced and vote for it they shouldn't be called "Tax Vampires".

[Wrinkle]

See the 1 23/30ths percent Sales Tax deal on the Council Agenda.

Thanks to the 12,000 voters out there who made a difference today. The others should be ashamed.

I think it's safe to suggest that at least 75% of the 9,000 YES voters had some vested interest in a win here.

[Conan71]

Okay, that failed, now let's go do the river.

I don't know of anyone who voted yes in my personal cabal.

All kidding aside, I don't think any new tax measures, including a street measure is going to meet with success until gas goes back down.  I don't have a number in mind it needs to retreat under and it's not scientific.  I just don't see how the average citizen is going to justify more money vaporizing from their pocket when the price of everything has gone up so much in the last year.

FWIW, I do believe that V-2025, for the most part, is what a community improvement tax should be all about.  We have gotten many new facilities in Tulsa we would not have otherwise.  It's been good to the construction trades and every Tulsa County community has benefitted from it.

[Kiah]

Quote from this morning's World:  It's "a crying shame" that "many residents didn't turn out to vote"?!?!

That was very specifically the intent of the Tulsa Metro Chamber, their PR firm, and the daily newspaper -- to hold the election with very little notice and public education, on an election date with nothing elese on the ballot, when voter turnout would be certain to be extremely low.

It's this kind of cynicism by the self-proclaimed 'shadow' government that turns off the voters who do turn out.

[sgrizzle]

I enjoy that the economy is too blame. Because this is the only time the economy has been bad. It's time for politicians to realize we actually read ballots and vote based on the individual items on it. We don't just go to the polls and go "Mmm.. TCC Goood.." or "Nooo... Taxes Baad"

Take the owasso campus off, add a downtown parking garage, maybe throw in a campus-campus shuttle service so you don't have to have every class at every campus. Then you won't need that much expansion. That's the kinda stuff we want.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I enjoy that the economy is too blame. Because this is the only time the economy has been bad. It's time for politicians to realize we actually read ballots and vote based on the individual items on it. We don't just go to the polls and go "Mmm.. TCC Goood.." or "Nooo... Taxes Baad"

Take the owasso campus off, add a downtown parking garage, maybe throw in a campus-campus shuttle service so you don't have to have every class at every campus. Then you won't need that much expansion. That's the kinda stuff we want.

The leadership at TCC, or any other local government entity, does want to use their brains and work SMART, with agility, with adaptiveness, with innovation, and with ECONOMY.

They prefer to agitate for more and more spending to justify the extraction of more and more taxes.  

That's their basic strategy, and they managed to mostly coast to the level of taxation they've achieved so far, utilizing their favors trading network of TCC, TTC, TDA, TPS, TPD, TFD, and TMUA to raise taxes a bit here, and a bit there, but ALWAYS upwards.

Grinding us down year end and year out.

Things may be changing.

The Kaiser River Tax was very heavily promoted, with the Tax Vampires raising and spending well over $1 million to promote it. Plus the ancillary benefit from all the local TV stations and the daily print media at the Lorton's World enthusiastically endorsing a plan to move sand around in a Prairie River.

I wouldn't be surprised when we see the final Contributions and Expenditures Report for the Citizens for TCC tax promotion PAC that they spent over $300K in promoting this new tax.

Wonder if Mr. Maxwell at Flintco is having a good day today?

[}:)]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

Quote from this morning's World:  It's "a crying shame" that "many residents didn't turn out to vote"?!?!

That was very specifically the intent of the Tulsa Metro Chamber, their PR firm, and the daily newspaper -- to hold the election with very little notice and public education, on an election date with nothing elese on the ballot, when voter turnout would be certain to be extremely low.

It's this kind of cynicism by the self-proclaimed 'shadow' government that turns off the voters who do turn out.

The silo'd One Issue election is the patented strategy of the Tax Vampires.  

The historical election results for tax issues tell them that they receive an advantage in Silo'd elections where there is only one issue on the ballot.

Why?

Because their Favors-Trading Network is ORGANIZED to get the vote YES partisans to the polls to vote.  There is seldom any organized Vote NO organization to any tax increase.  Why?

Because the Vote NO personnel are unpaid volunteers.  The Vote YES to higher taxes Vampires are already on the payroll of one of these entities, or of one of their favored construction company cronies and their bevy of Favors-Trading allies.

That's why there are Soooooooo many elections in Oklahoma....to favor the Tax Vampires.

This election could have been held in April and saved the tax payers the cost of a separate election.

Or, it could have been held in July when the Federal and State Primary elections are going to be held.  

But, Nooooooooooooooooooo, the Tax Vampires simply MUST have their very own Silo'd one-issue tax election.

[B)]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

Quote from this morning's World:  It's "a crying shame" that "many residents didn't turn out to vote"?!?!

That was very specifically the intent of the Tulsa Metro Chamber, their PR firm, and the daily newspaper -- to hold the election with very little notice and public education, on an election date with nothing elese on the ballot, when voter turnout would be certain to be extremely low.

It's this kind of cynicism by the self-proclaimed 'shadow' government that turns off the voters who do turn out.

Mayor Chatty Kathy Taylor, who has backed EVERY proposed City OR County tax increase since she become the Mayor of Tulsa, was indirectly quoted by the Lorton's World as saying "she is sad that Tulsans don't appear ready to invest in education".

How arrogant!  

And, how misleading, too!

Tulsa County residents collectively are taxed (i.e. "Invest") $100,000,000's if not $Billions in their taxes for Higher and Common Education, including TCC and TTC.  

Approximately 60% of the State expenditures flow into local schools, colleges and universities, extracted primarily from the State Sales Tax of 4.5% on EVERY dollar spent for a good (except newspapers, of course).    

Our property taxes generously fund TCC and TTC, too, as well as local school districts.  

Again, we experience of the Tulsa PREMIUM with TTC the HIGHEST average cost per student vocational district in the state, and TCC as the LOWEST state-funded Community College in the State.

Mayor Chatty Kathy needs a serious Reality dose.

[8D]

[Breadburner]

I for one am sick of gettin 10 and 20 dollared to death....

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

I for one am sick of gettin 10 and 20 dollared to death....

It's not $10 or $20 a month here and there for taxes, it is the COLLECTIVE annual amount extracted, year-in and year-out that drains your disposable income.

Remember, there has been NO growth in real hourly wages since 1979.  

1979!

The only way that families have maintained their standards of income is by BOTH parents working full-time.

Not exactly the Ozzie and Harriet , Leave it to Beaver, I Love Lucy, or Father Knows Best family paradigm, is it?


[:O]

[RecycleMichael]

You know Bear...if you left the big city and returned to the woods, your taxes would probably go down.

Just saying...

[Renaissance]

Don't feed the bears.  Vote over.  Thread over.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear


It's not $10 or $20 a month here and there for taxes, it is the COLLECTIVE annual amount extracted, year-in and year-out that drains your disposable income.

That was his point, the 10-20 adding up.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear


It's not $10 or $20 a month here and there for taxes, it is the COLLECTIVE annual amount extracted, year-in and year-out that drains your disposable income.

That was his point, the 10-20 adding up.

Sorry.  

Left my Acme Mind-Reading Helmet at home today.