What gives with Stillwater/OSU?

[TheArtist]

  Over the last couple of years as I have started paying attention to what makes some cities or small towns thrive more than others...Best places to live, best places to be single and dating, high wages, high quality of life, fastest growing, most best jobs, etc. etc. There are often several factors that you see over and over. One of them is that a town or city is a College Town.

Cue Stillwater... You know, the place where they keep expanding OSU, and not expanding OSU Tulsa lol. I was talking with someone the other day who lives part time in Stillwater and another state. They mentioned how dead Stillwater was, how its little "main street" is so lackluster. She told me that if she and her family were to move full time to Oklahoma, she would choose Tulsa over Stillwater. She has lived in college towns before, and loved them. But Stillwater was not at all a place where she would choose to live full time.  I have heard a lot of people who have been to Stillwater say they would have no desire what so ever, to live there... yet college towns are often great, attractive, places to live, have good economies, lots of start ups and new innovative companies, etc.   


On the one hand I would love for Stillwater to be a vibrant "third city"/college town in Oklahoma. The more attractive, thriving cities we have the better. But Stillwater doesnt seem to be living up to any college town potential. Yet we as taxpayers, and the large donors, keep funneling huge sums into OSU Stillwater. Hundreds of millions of dollars in the last decade or so. I cant help but think of how much more potential that money would have to Oklahomas over all economy if it had gone to grow OSU Tulsa. The synergies seem to be so much better in that situation.

Will Stillwater/OSU ever be the vibrant, attractive, economic driver that other college towns are?

Or, should we seriously consider shifting more attention to OSU Tulsa?   

I just saw in the paper the other day, another local wealthy Tulsan was donating millions to OSU in Stillwater. They can donate to whatever college they want of course. But might they be encouraged to have that donation go to things in OSU Tulsa? We desperately need it here and could put it to great use. Better use I would say with more benefits to more people and the state. Or do we continue funneling more to Stillwater where it seems to be not living up to its potential.  Or is it just a matter of OSU not being that large a university and it needs to be much larger in order for Stillwater to be one of those "best small towns or best places to live" and therefore we need to keep funneling the largest amounts of new money to it? My bias is otherwise.

[nathanm]

I just saw in the paper the other day, another local wealthy Tulsan was donating millions to OSU in Stillwater. They can donate to whatever college they want of course. But might they be encouraged to have that donation go to things in OSU Tulsa? We desperately need it here and could put it to great use. Better use I would say with more benefits to more people and the state. Or do we continue funneling more to Stillwater where it seems to be not living up to its potential.  Or is it just a matter of OSU not being that large a university and it needs to be much larger in order for Stillwater to be one of those "best small towns or best places to live" and therefore we need to keep funneling the largest amounts of new money to it? My bias is otherwise.

UA Fayetteville has a smaller, although close, enrollment. Take that to mean whatever you like.

[kylieosu]

I loved my nearly 5 years in Stillwater....however, I grew up in a small town near OKC with a population of 1200, so Stillwater was like a metropolis to me when I moved there after high school. But, most people I met at OSU from bigger cities expressed the same views you spoke of, that they hated it there and couldn't wait to get out and wouldn't be back. Stillwater is definitely growing though....ever since I moved here to Tulsa in early 2006, there have been a ton of new businesses spring up there. Every time I go back to visit, I see something that wasn't there before. They are supposed to be getting a Target soon, which believe me, is very exciting for the students. lol. Anyway, for me, it was a good transition from small town to a more urban life, and I really feel like Stillwater has a nice charm even if other people don't agree.

But, onto your other point, I definitely agree that more funding needs to go to OSU-Tulsa. I think it would have been nice to see the wealthy Tulsan direct his fund to his hometown campus, seeing as how OSU-Stilly already gets tons of money from other sources and like you said, it could be used in a big way here...maybe donors are more likely to give to the Stillwater campus because that's actually where they went to school and feel an emotional connection to it. I really don't know. Just my two cents.

[tulsa1603]

Hmmm, I got my undergrad at OSU Stillwater.  It's definitely a college town when compared to another city of it's size WITHOUT a university (say, Muskogee for instance).  There is a lot more diversity, there are cultural advantages to having a university i.e., plays, concerts, libraries, etc., and while the downtown is lackluster, it's hardly what I would call completely DEAD.  I don't think it's really any worse than Norman's.  Now, you also have to realize OSU is a school that appeals to a certain demographic (don't be offended, I can say this, I went there)and a large portion of it's students are from very small towns, which tend to be a bit more redneck and cares less about the cosmopolitan benefits of being in a university town.  Most people I knew there loved it there and would still live there if they could.  Not me.

I've always had a problem with the idea of trying to "move" or switch the focus of OSU to Tulsa.  I think that the focus should stay in Stillwater.  I certainly don't think a University's growth or development should be used as a tool to help create a vibrant Tulsa - I mean, yes, it would be great if OSU TULSA would develop more on it's own, and I think it is slowly but surely - keep in mind that OSU Stillwater is well over 100 years old, and has grown tons since my years there in the late 1990's.  

As far as a comparison to U of A - Stillwater is an hour from OKC and an hour from Tulsa.  It's easier for people to jump in the car and run to one of the larger cities on the weekend, whereas Fayetteville needs to be a bit more independent - it's more of a geographic center.  Just my two cents.

And i agree with Kylie - if I were donating, I'd be donating to the school of architecture or to some portion of the school that meant a lot to me when i was there.  OSU Tulsa really doesn't create nostalgic feelings for people yet.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Everybody goes home for the summer and on the weekends.  That is why it is dead.

[TheArtist]

UA Fayetteville has a smaller, although close, enrollment. Take that to mean whatever you like.

Well Dixon Street and Fayettevilles downtown beats the heck out of what there is in Stillwater. However, Fayetteville has twice the population and easily pulls from Springdale and Rogers to boot.

Epodunks ranking of Small College Towns 20,000 up to 99,900pop http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/index.html

1 Charlottesville, VA
2 Bozeman, MT
3 Hays, KS
4 Boulder, CO
5 Missoula, MT
6 Manhattan, KS
7 Burlington, VT
8 Bismarck, ND
9 Iowa City, IA
10 Chapel Hill, NC

[SXSW]

I've always had a problem with the idea of trying to "move" or switch the focus of OSU to Tulsa.  I think that the focus should stay in Stillwater.  I certainly don't think a University's growth or development should be used as a tool to help create a vibrant Tulsa - I mean, yes, it would be great if OSU TULSA would develop more on it's own, and I think it is slowly but surely - keep in mind that OSU Stillwater is well over 100 years old, and has grown tons since my years there in the late 1990's.

I agree with keeping the OSU focus in Stillwater.  That is why I think they should make OSU-Tulsa an independent university with its own colors, programs, etc. independent of those in Stillwater, similar to UW-Milwaukee, UT-El Paso, etc.  The school can still be controlled by the OSU Board of Regents and have close ties to Stillwater but it shouldn't just be a neglected satellite campus like it is now.  I think even renaming it something like Tulsa State University or similar would better differentiate it.  OU's Tulsa campus has carved a niche with its graduate health, community medicine, and education programs and hopefully will continue to expand those programs.  OSU-Tulsa (or 'Tulsa State') can fill the niche of providing students a public 4 year undergraduate education in downtown Tulsa as well as graduate programs in business, engineering, and technology.  I think as long as OSU-Tulsa is a satellite of the Stillwater campus it will never fulfill its potential.  The question now is, will OSU let go of its stranglehold on the Tulsa campus? 

And Fayetteville is a great college town and is only a little less than 2 hours from Tulsa.  A lot of UA grads (and Razorbacks fans) live in Tulsa.  Beautiful mountain scenery all around.

[TheTed]

As a person who absolutely loves college towns and the college town way of life, I usually end up bored and leaving earlier than I had planned when I visit Stillwater.

The campus is beautiful but Stillwater doesn't have the many things that make college town life awesome. If I lived there I'd have to go to Tulsa/OKC all the time just for basic shopping needs like clothing. Good college towns have most of the good parts of urban life without most of the drawbacks of urbanity.

The student body at OSU is not racially diverse at all. That's one of the great things about college: meeting people who are different than you. I'm not sure there is a cool republican college town anywhere. College towns can be great because they're so different from the surrounding rural areas.

Stillwater just seems too much like the small towns surrounding it to be a great college town.

When I need a college town fix, I go to Fayetteville. Pretty much everything's better there. It doesn't hurt that it costs basically half as much to attend a football/men's basketball game at Arkansas as it does at OSU.

[nathanm]

Well Dixon Street and Fayettevilles downtown beats the heck out of what there is in Stillwater. However, Fayetteville has twice the population and easily pulls from Springdale and Rogers to boot.

It does now, but the population difference was less than 5000 in 1990. In 1980, Fayetteville's population was significantly less than Stillwater's.

It's easy to forget that 30 years ago NW Arkansas was tiny. Benton and Washington County's combined population was less than that of the city of Fort Smith alone until sometime in the mid 90s.

[swampee]

When my wife and I moved here from the PNW two years ago we checked out a lot of the surrounding areas and college towns. I loved Fayetteville, Austin, and especially Lawerence. Those were really neat college towns but Norman was medicore at best and Stillwater was horrible. I would hate to go there. I look at OSU Tulsa and I think this could be a great urban college experience. You could walk right into the downtown and wouldnt need a car. The possibilities are endless if the downtown takes off. I really have to wonder is OSU Tulsa will be held back out of fear that it will take away from Stillwater. There is no doubt where I would choose to spend my 4 to 5 years.

[kylieosu]

The student body at OSU is not racially diverse at all. That's one of the great things about college: meeting people who are different than you.

I don't agree with that at all. I met plenty of people with different backgrounds when I was at OSU, many of whom have become lifelong friends.

[tshane250]

I look at OSU Tulsa and I think this could be a great urban college experience. You could walk right into the downtown and wouldnt need a car. The possibilities are endless if the downtown takes off. I really have to wonder is OSU Tulsa will be held back out of fear that it will take away from Stillwater. There is no doubt where I would choose to spend my 4 to 5 years.

I completely agree.  I went to graduate school at IUPUI, which is located in downtown Indianapolis, because I wanted to be in an urban environment.  IUPUI is incredibly successful and its success doesn't take away from IU Bloomington or Purdue.

[mjchamplin]

With regard to OSU-Tulsa it's also important to remember that it's technically a part of OSU-Stillwater. When you get a degree in Tulsa, it's the same degree as Stillwater and it still says that on the diploma. So a donation to OSU as a whole could technically be spent in Tulsa (at least that's my understanding.) A couple of weeks ago we had Gary Trennepohl (president of OSU-Tulsa) speak to our leadership class. We were able to ask him questions afterward. The most interesting obstacle that OSU-T is facing is that because of state legislation, there are a number of degree programs that the campus can't offer and Langston can. So some of the popular degree programs (accounting was the one that I remember) can't be offered. If you want that degree from OSU you have to go to Stillwater. He said they're working to get that changed.

He's about to retire, but said he hopes his replacement will be active in moving the campus forward. A lot of this has to do with negotiating with city and state officials, and I don't envy him there...

At any rate, I can speak for myself and many students at OSU-Tulsa in saying that it's a really good school. People in general seem to be excited by the prospect of expansion and really getting the campus tied to the urban fabric of downtown. Enrollment keeps going up, every semester, and in the end that's what matters. More students means more money, more buildings, more services.

[bokworker]

Well Dixon Street and Fayettevilles downtown beats the heck out of what there is in Stillwater. However, Fayetteville has twice the population and easily pulls from Springdale and Rogers to boot.

Epodunks ranking of Small College Towns 20,000 up to 99,900pop http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/index.html

1 Charlottesville, VA
2 Bozeman, MT
3 Hays, KS
4 Boulder, CO
5 Missoula, MT
6 Manhattan, KS
7 Burlington, VT
8 Bismarck, ND
9 Iowa City, IA
10 Chapel Hill, NC

Hays Kansas??? You have got to be kidding me. My daughter went to a Catholic prep school in Hays her freshman year (so she would live to see her sophomore year) and there is no way Hays is better than even Stillwater..

[Hoss]

Hays Kansas??? You have got to be kidding me. My daughter went to a Catholic prep school in Hays her freshman year (so she would live to see her sophomore year) and there is no way Hays is better than even Stillwater..

I was going to say the same thing.  I stayed in Hays KS over night (not really telling) but I can't see how it would fare better over Boulder or Manhattan, both of which I've been to for extended stays.