Iran Situation REALLY Heating Up

[guido911]

CORRECTED: Not much on this forum about what is going on over there. Today, Britain just summoned Iranian's ambassador:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/19/iran.election.britain/

I know we should not "meddle" in Iran's business (although it's okay if we meddle in Israel's), but isn't the president of the U.S. the leader of the free world? Should he not be at least speaking up for free and honest elections?

Updated:

Photoshop of the day?

[guido911]

Updated:  The U.S. House condemns the Iranian crackdown 405-1 (Yep, Ron Paul is the "1"). Obama, voting present.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98TS0H00&show_article=1

[Townsend]

Iran is a good example of why religion should have nothing to do with politics.

[guido911]

Iran is a good example of why religion should have nothing to do with politics.

Politics or government?

[Townsend]

Politics or government?

pol⋅i⋅tics  /ˈpɒlɪtɪks/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [pol-i-tiks]  Show IPA
–noun (used with a singular or plural verb) the science or art of political government.

[Hoss]

pol⋅i⋅tics  /ˈpɒlɪtɪks/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [pol-i-tiks]  Show IPA
–noun (used with a singular or plural verb) the science or art of political government.

Harhar!

[guido911]

Here's an interesting take on what's going on in Iran and Obama's response:

http://patterico.com/

[USRufnex]

"interesting take"  --- yeah, you sound just like Fox News... more political hackery from right wingnut idealogues..... the same kinda shrill politics that left wing liberals engaged in against Ronald Reagan in the early 80s.....

The era of smoke 'em out/axis of evil "Cowboy Diplomacy" and neoconservative foreign policy is OVER for the foreseeable future.  Thank God for that.  And even though I liked the John McCain of 2000 and might have even voted for him against Al Gore that year, I am grateful that John "bomb bomb bomb... bomb bomb Iran" McCain is NOT the POTUS.

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

Obama Plays the "McCain as Hothead" Card
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qJu_bkX4SU&NR=1

I'll take wisdom over jingoism any day of the week....

Obama's Ally on Iran Policy: Pat Buchanan
posted by John Nichols on 06/20/2009 @ 11:54am
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/444992/obama_s_ally_on_iran_policy_pat_buchanan

June 19, 2009
Tiananmen Moments
By Patrick J. Buchanan
http://www.theamericancause.org/

"It is impossible to believe a denunciation of the regime by Obama will cause it to stay its hand if it believes its power is imperiled. But it is certain that if Obama denounces Tehran, those demonstrators will be portrayed as dupes and agents of America before and after they meet their fate.

If standing up and denouncing the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad from 7,000 miles away is moral heroism, it is moral heroism at other people's expense."

[USRufnex]

"My name is USRufnex and I'm a recovering evangelical....."

"Hi Ruf."

Today's reading:


Frank Schaeffer
Posted: June 20, 2009 01:43 PM
The Real Lesson Of Iran -- Beware America's Republican Mullahs

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/the-real-lesson-of-iran_b_218359.html

The Republicans are faulting President Obama for not taking a "strong enough stand" in support of the freedom marchers in Iran. Yet if the Republican/Religious Right/Neoconservative agenda had come to full fruition over the last 35 years the Republicans would have plunged America into our own version of the misbegotten theocracy destroying Iran today. I know. As a former Religious Right leader I worked to make America "safe" for "Christian values" and dangerous to everyone else. Thankfully I, and those like me, failed.

Had we succeeded America would be another version of Iran. Instead of people like James Dobson and Pat Robertson having become marginalized they'd be sitting in Washington advising whomever was the next Republican president. Instead of environmental protection and new mileage standards for cars there would be new anti-gay laws on the books.

What are the real lessons of Iran for the USA?

1) Don't mix religion and politics.

2) Thank God for the separation of church and state.

3) The Republicans are utter hypocrites.

Until I got out of the religious right (in the mid-1980s) I was both a leader of the so-called pro-life movement and a part of a Republican Party hate machine masquerading as the moral conscience of America.

If the far right of the Republican Party and we of the Religious Right had had our way by now there would be a constitutional amendment and/or laws forcing prayer in schools, disenfranchising gay men and women, banning all abortions under penalty of death, banning gay men and women from serving in the military, launching a neoconservative led and religious right backed holy war against Islam, fixing Israel's borders permanently to incorporate all the land taken in 1967 forever into a "Greater Israel" based on the "fact" that "God gave the Jews" the land "forever," capital punishment would be used routinely to punish a variety of crimes including being gay, civil rights for blacks, women, gays, unions would be in retreat, and -- other than enforcing "morality" - George W. Bush's style of "free market" non-governance would be permanent.

Think this is all far fetched? Then you never sat in secret meetings with Pat Robertson or the late Dr. Kennedy -- as I did when I was a religious right leader -- fomenting plans to "bring America back to God." If we'd won America would be a slicker more dangerous version of Iran.

Picture America if Sarah Palin was president, both houses of Congress had a deep Republican majority, and the last 30 years of appointments to the Supreme Court had all been far right choices. Picture Fox News as the only TV news with access to the government, and the editors of the New York Times in jail for "treason."

The Religious Right has been awash in anti-democratic (even anti-American) religious ideologues for the better part of 40 years. For instance I knew the founders of the so-called dominionist or "reconstruction" wing of our movement personally, people like the late Reverend Rousas John Rushdoony the father of "Christian Reconstructionism" and the modern Christian home school movement.

Rushdoony (who I met and talked with many times) believed that interracial marriage, which he referred to as "unequal yoking", should be made illegal. He also opposed "enforced integration", referred to Southern slavery as "benevolent", and said that "some people are by nature slaves". Rushdoony was also a Holocaust denier. And yet his home school materials are a mainstay of the evangelical home school movement to this day!

Rushdoony's 1973 opus, The Institutes of Biblical Law, says that fundamentalist Christians must "take control of governments and impose strict biblical law" on America and the world. That would mean the death penalty for "practicing homosexuals."

Many evangelical leaders deny holding Reconstructionist beliefs but Beverly and Tim LaHaye (of Concerned Women for Americaand the "Left Behind" novels that glorify religious violence), Donald Wildmon (American Family Association) and the late D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Ministries) -- served alongside Rushdoony on the secretive Coalition for Revival, a group formed in 1981 to "reclaim America for Christ." I went to the early meetings. I first met Tim LaHaye at one such meeting. And what Dobson, Falwell et al were pushing, and what the "tea parties" and Fox News are all about today, is one or another version of the Rushdoony/theocracy version of the Iranian mullahs American-style.

When there are tens of thousands of Americans sitting in evangelical churches every Sunday wherein President Obama is vilified as an "abortionist," a "Communist," a "secret Muslim," and even as "the Antichrist," when the former vice president accuses our President of what amounts to treason, all because President Obama won't allow the torture of prisoners in an American version of holy war, all because he has decided it is wise to build bridges of respect to Muslim countries, we've left recognizable political territory and entered the realm of violence-inciting hate and delusion of the kind Iran's "supreme leader" indulges in.

Picture the harshest Old Testament laws applied at home and the harshest neoconservative military policy abroad and that would be America if the Republicans had everything they wanted. We'd be in three wars now instead of two - Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. It would be open season on domestic surveillance. Torture would be legal. Habeas Corpus would be a thing of the past. Women would be in prison for having had abortions. Gay men and women would be hounded and if they were murdered there would be leaders saying they had it coming. The CIA and FBI would be operating inside the USA to crush dissent. Blackwater (and other companies like it) would be taking over more and more military duties and operating internationally as a mercenary death squad.

Look at Iran and give thanks that the Republican Party -- the tool of America's mullahs married to the Neocon war mongers -- is in decline and has been rejected by the American people. Work to keep America secular, free and democratic.

Stay vigilant. Having failed at the ballot box the Republicans and their far right hate-filled supporters are beginning to foment violence with their crazy anti-Obama talk and hysteria. As Bob Herbert said in his NY Times (June 20) column; "I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help feeling as if the murder at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington and the assassination of the abortion doctor in Wichita, Kan., and the slaying of three police officers in Pittsburgh -- all of them right-wing, hate-driven attacks -- were just the beginning and that worse is to come."

The battle between oppressive religion and freedom is not over yet-- not in Iran, nor here in America.

[Red Arrow]

"My name is USRufnex and I'm a recovering evangelical....."

"Hi Ruf."

Ruf,  I find it difficult to believe you were ever an evangelical...

[USRufnex]

Assembly of God, followed by Sheridan Christian Center/Victory back in the 80s.

Received the "gift of tongues" at a revival by John Wesley Fletcher (the guy who later introduced Jim Bakker to Jessica Hahn)..... I remember a prophesy from John Wesley Fletcher at that revival that NEVER HAPPENED.... I remember a prophesy in tongues translated by Marilyn Hickey that told us "Ronald Reagan will receive the gift of speaking in tongues by the end of his second term"..... NEVER HAPPENED.  I remember in the 70s being forced to watch all those anti-abortion films that never mentioned the painful decisions and problems of the women who had them.... I remember watching propaganda films about the "End Times" featuring hippies and various sundry Episcopalians who were "left behind" .... I remember being told the Catholic Church was the "whore of Babylon" and that the Pope was likely either the anti-Christ or allied with the anti-Christ... I remember being told the rapture would happen in 1976 or 1977.... or '79.... or when the planets align in 1982.... etc, etc, etc... I remember a Medieval History class at Victory Christian School using a book written by the good folks at Liberty Univ teaching us the "evils of secular humanism".  I remember being told that we need to boycott and protest the release of the movie version of "The Last Temptation of Christ".... I remember being told that "AIDS was God's judgement upon homosexuals" and that these people would be "wiped out"....

Do you believe me now.... or shall I go on?

[guido911]

The era of smoke 'em out/axis of evil "Cowboy Diplomacy" and neoconservative foreign policy is OVER for the foreseeable future.  Thank God for that.  And even though I liked the John McCain of 2000 and might have even voted for him against Al Gore that year, I am grateful that John "bomb bomb bomb... bomb bomb Iran" McCain is NOT the POTUS.

Oh, the foreign policy that kept us safe after 9/11. Let's see, Obama's foreign policy has given us a North Korea that is threatening to fire a long range missile in Hawaii's direction, has China laughing at Timothy Geithner and carrying billions more of our debt, has allowed FRANCE, freaking surrenderers extraordinaire, shouting the loudest over what is happening in Iran, and an endless "apology to the world" tour. But hey, it's not as if he gave the Queen of England an i-pod as a gift or gave the British PM DVDs that didn't work. Oh, wait. Nevermind.

As for the neocon policies, which one would those be that Obama has changed? Rendition? Obama does it. Military tribunals for Gitmo detainees? Obama wants it. Not releasing prisoner abuse photos? Obama refuses. Warrantless wiretaps? Obama is following it. Afghanistan? Obama is sending in more troops. Let's not even get started with other Obama criticisms of Bush that he now follows (signing statements, refusal to publish white house visitor's list, firing of IG's)

Here's an article from the notoriously conservative and rabidly right-winged Newsweek:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/202875

[FOTD]

Kudos to Obama and Clinton for staying out of it. Keep it up!

You're a stooge, Gwee.

[USRufnex]

What is the problem with people like Guido and the religious right and the jacknut Republicans like that Patterico guy who DESPISE this president?

Nice avatar, idiot.  

When have I ever used some crazy caricature of Bush as my avatar?  Or Hillary Clinton, for that matter...

Dems gave Bush an amazing amount of support and goodwill after 9/11 that continued even after the announcement of the invasion of Iraq-- all this for a Republican president who lost the popular vote in 2000... god forbid you crazy, vengeful, wingnut hack Republicans ever offer the same kind of support to this Democratic president....

Bush's policies have set this president up for failure in foreign policy... what exactly did "axis of evil" and "mission accomplished" do for us in North Korea?  Or Iran?.... I fear Obama will not take enough uncompromising decisive actions to change course from the last eight years of failed neocon policies... policies that have made this country LESS SAFE.

Bush's pro-active invasion of Iraq (when it was Saudi nationals who attacked this country on 9/11) and turning his back on Al Caida in Afghanistan have pushed Pakistan into political chaos and has served to strengthen the Taliban in both countries.

The man's been in office for six months.  A lesson from history is that no matter the change in President, foreign policy is rarely completely reversed.  Case in point:  Vietnam....

http://www.vietnam-war.info/quotes/quotes2.php

Ronald Reagan, 1965
"We should declare war on North Vietnam. . . .We could pave the whole country and put parking strips on it, and still be home by Christmas."

George McGovern, speech to U.S. Senate, April 25, 1967.
"We seem bent upon saving the Vietnamese from Ho Chi Minh, even if we have to kill them and demolish their country to do it....I do not intend to remain silent in the face of what I regard as a policy of madness which, sooner or later, will envelop my son and American youth by the millions for years to come."

Lyndon B. Johnson, address to nation, March 31, 1968.
"Our objective in South Vietnam has never been the annihilation of the enemy. It has been to bring about a recognition in Hanoi that its objective - taking over the South by force - could not be achieved."

Richard M. Nixon, 1969
"Let us understand: North Vietnam cannot defeat or humiliate the United States. Only Americans can do that."

Richard Nixon, Oct. 1969
"I'm not going to be the first American president to lose a war."

Henry Kissinger, Oct. 1972
"We believe that peace is at hand."

Richard Nixon in a letter to President Thieu, Jan. 1973
"You have my assurance that we will respond with full force should the settlement be violated by North Vietnam."

Nguyen Van Thieu, April 1975
"If the Americans do not want to support us anymore, let them go, get out! Let them forget their humanitarian promises!"

Gerald Ford, April 1975
"Today, America can regain the sense of pride that existed before Vietnam. These events, tragic as they are, portend neither the end of the world nor of America's leadership in the world."

[USRufnex]

Frank Schaeffer, New York Times best selling author, 2009

"When there are tens of thousands of Americans sitting in evangelical churches every Sunday wherein President Obama is vilified as an "abortionist," a "Communist," a "secret Muslim," and even as "the Antichrist," when the former vice president accuses our President of what amounts to treason, all because President Obama won't allow the torture of prisoners in an American version of holy war, all because he has decided it is wise to build bridges of respect to Muslim countries, we've left recognizable political territory and entered the realm of violence-inciting hate and delusion of the kind Iran's "supreme leader" indulges in."