New I-244 Bridge

[rwarn17588]

Couldn't the light rail line be installed on the Avery or the exisiting 11st Street Bridge? 

I am 75% certain the Tulsa-Sapulpa Union Railway interurbans ran on the Avery Bridge up to the 1940s anyway.

The Cyrus Avery Bridge, formerly the 11th Street Bridge, had a rail line in a depressed area in the middle, but the depression was taken away and the bridge was converted to all highway traffic by 1935.

And, no, the current Avery Bridge could not handle a train ... or any other vehicle for that matter. It's too deteriorated. Vision 2025 envisioned rehabbing the bridge. But once the measure passed and the sales-tax money was available for an extensive engineering study, it was determined that the bridge was in much worse shape than anticipated and that all of the money earmarked for Route 66 projects would have been eaten up by fixing the bridge. So they closed off the bridge and pray that some substantial money will be there in the future to properly rehab the structure.

[Transport_Oklahoma]

The Cyrus Avery Bridge, formerly the 11th Street Bridge, had a rail line in a depressed area in the middle, but the depression was taken away and the bridge was converted to all highway traffic by 1935.

I believe you, but is there a photograph or diagram showing this?  This is the first time I have heard someone confirm it.

[rwarn17588]

I believe you, but is there a photograph or diagram showing this?  This is the first time I have heard someone confirm it.

I got the information from ODOT.

[godboko71]

It is also on a plaque near the bridge and flags. The above history that is.

[SXSW]

The Cyrus Avery Bridge, formerly the 11th Street Bridge, had a rail line in a depressed area in the middle, but the depression was taken away and the bridge was converted to all highway traffic by 1935.

And, no, the current Avery Bridge could not handle a train ... or any other vehicle for that matter. It's too deteriorated. Vision 2025 envisioned rehabbing the bridge. But once the measure passed and the sales-tax money was available for an extensive engineering study, it was determined that the bridge was in much worse shape than anticipated and that all of the money earmarked for Route 66 projects would have been eaten up by fixing the bridge. So they closed off the bridge and pray that some substantial money will be there in the future to properly rehab the structure.

I wouldn't be too heartbroken if they had to tear down the Avery bridge.  However, instead of putting the bike path under the new bridge why not spend the extra money to properly rehab the Avery bridge and put the bike path there?  I hate seeing it fenced off.

[rwarn17588]

I wouldn't be too heartbroken if they had to tear down the Avery bridge.  However, instead of putting the bike path under the new bridge why not spend the extra money to properly rehab the Avery bridge and put the bike path there?  I hate seeing it fenced off.

Funny you should mention that ...

A number of cyclists and other states have been really increasing their efforts in the last few years to either build new bike trails, convert abandoned railroad beds, or convert abandoned segments of road next to or near Route 66. Illinois already has built segments for the Route 66 Bike Trail, and are building more. Other states on Route 66 are looking at the same thing.

So I think your idea for the Avery Bridge has merit, and I suspect the idea will gain traction.

[Conan71]

I wouldn't be too heartbroken if they had to tear down the Avery bridge.  However, instead of putting the bike path under the new bridge why not spend the extra money to properly rehab the Avery bridge and put the bike path there?  I hate seeing it fenced off.

I'm trying to figure out where the bike path would lead on the south end of the south bound 244 bridge.  It's all rail yard or refinery now.  Off the north end the trail goes over the rail bed and around to Newblock Park.  It's a little harder justifying rehabbing the Avery Bridge for pedestrian traffic when there's a protected pedestrian lane over the bridge just down stream of it and other than taking down the fencing. I'm trying to figure out what re-hab could possibly be needed for moderate pedestrian loads on that bridge.

[SXSW]

I'm trying to figure out where the bike path would lead on the south end of the south bound 244 bridge.  It's all rail yard or refinery now.  Off the north end the trail goes over the rail bed and around to Newblock Park.  It's a little harder justifying rehabbing the Avery Bridge for pedestrian traffic when there's a protected pedestrian lane over the bridge just down stream of it and other than taking down the fencing. I'm trying to figure out what re-hab could possibly be needed for moderate pedestrian loads on that bridge.

My thoughts exactly.  Either spend the money to structurally stabilize the Avery bridge for joggers and bikers or tear it down.  Otherwise the bridge will continue to sit unused and fenced off like a relic of the past, and it's not even really visible due to the SW Blvd./11th St. bridge to the south and 244 bridge to the north.  Other than historic value is there really a point to it being there?  I think building the current SW Blvd./11th St. bridge and then letting the Avery bridge fall into disrepair was its eventual death wish.  

My question for the planners of this bridge is how do they intend to get joggers and bikers from the west and east bank river trails onto the new 244 bridge?  Will you have to cross SW Blvd./11th St. at-grade or will there be some kind of bridge/ramp?  The same problem exists for putting the trail on the Avery bridge as you have to cross a busy street.  And will the tracks underneath the bridge be solely used for future HSR and commuter/light rail or will they also be used by BNSF for freight trains?  If so will the railroad bridge to the north eventually be demolished?

Pic from the TW showing the congested 244/SW Blvd./11th St. river crossing into downtown

[dsjeffries]

I can't wait to see some designs for this. Am I making this up, or do I remember GKFF putting money toward the architectural/design part of this?

[SXSW]

I can't wait to see some designs for this. Am I making this up, or do I remember GKFF putting money toward the architectural/design part of this?

According to this TW article from last August 17th the Kaiser Foundation has provided an architect for the bridge.  That's all I know.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20090817_16_A1_TheGeo807746

I posted this pic on the first page of this thread but it gives you a good view of the current conditions in this area

[waterboy]

What is the style of the old 11th street bridge you guys wouldn't mind seeing destroyed? Artist, you have any input as to its style and relevance? Is it the same style as the original 21st street bridge that architects recreated with the newer bridge? Just wondering. BTW, its not totally useless. Lots of dregs ocassionally live within its arches.

Also, that old railroad bridge that was built in the late 1800's out of native stone quarried from around Chandler park that shows little sign of deterioration in spite of multiple daily runs of tons of freight for over a hundred years......tear it down? So you can build, what, a better bridge?

[swake]

What is the style of the old 11th street bridge you guys wouldn't mind seeing destroyed? Artist, you have any input as to its style and relevance? Is it the same style as the original 21st street bridge that architects recreated with the newer bridge? Just wondering. BTW, its not totally useless. Lots of dregs ocassionally live within its arches.

Also, that old railroad bridge that was built in the late 1800's out of native stone quarried from around Chandler park that shows little sign of deterioration in spite of multiple daily runs of tons of freight for over a hundred years......tear it down? So you can build, what, a better bridge?

Is that bridge supposed to be replaced? I thought the rail component of the new bridge was for a new commuter rail line, not to replace the existing freight line.

[waterboy]

Remarks made by SXSW and Nik and confusion as to the definition of multimodal.

The old rr bridge is solid and historical. The original 11th street bridge looks to me to be Art Deco. Of course, few people actually get to see the old bridges anymore since the ugly, high maintenance eyesores carrying I-244 spouted up between them.

[Red Arrow]

Also, that old railroad bridge that was built in the late 1800's out of native stone quarried from around Chandler park that shows little sign of deterioration in spite of multiple daily runs of tons of freight for over a hundred years......tear it down? So you can build, what, a better bridge?

You are forgetting about the jobs that will be created by replacing a bridge that could last forever with a bridge that will only last 20 years. 

[SXSW]

The old rr bridge is solid and historical. The original 11th street bridge looks to me to be Art Deco. Of course, few people actually get to see the old bridges anymore since the ugly, high maintenance eyesores carrying I-244 spouted up between them.

I'm not advocating tearing down the railroad bridge and the Avery bridge but was interested in what their uses will be once the new I-244 bridges are finished.  If any bridge needs to be demolished it's the SW Blvd./11th St. bridge that hides the Avery bridge.  If the Avery bridge was more visible I'm sure there would be more effort put into restoring it at least for bike/pedestrian traffic.

I don't understand the need for a bike/jogging trail underneath the bridge when you could use the Avery bridge for that purpose.  In that case it would be nice to see the east and west bank trails go underneath the SW Blvd./11th St. bridge to connect to the Avery so you wouldn't have to cross the busy street.  It looks like that is similar to what is proposed by INCOG: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/recovery/tiger/tulsa_i244/pdfs/trail.pdf

Cyrus Avery Bridge (courtesy of curry_allison at flickr)