Condo dispute

[HoneySuckle]

On behalf of someone, I'm coming to ask you "know it alls" a question concerning a condo dispute (owned), which occurred two months ago.

Some facts.  In mid July, the owner downstairs was changing his a/c filter for the first time (new owner), and noticed that his "shed" which is attached to his bedroom on the outside, was wet, moldy, and the ceiling of such shed had practically caved in, exposing insulation and dry wall was covered with mold.

He left a note for the upstairs owner informing her that her unit was leaking down to his property.

Both individuals contacted their insurance, and both received responses saying that ongoing leaks/mold was not covered.

So...doesn't this still make the upstairs owner responsible for the damage?  She's looking at it this way...I was not at fault, and my adjuster said it's not covered, so it's the person downstair to deal with this issue.

After some "neighborly" pressure, she agreed to have a contractor come out to see the damage, but she asked the downstairs owner to contact contractors for the best price.

Quotes were given from Andy on Call to a Restoration company and the ballpark figure was around $6K.  Each contractor said it was not just the drywall, and that it was significant damage.  A couple said they didn't even want the job, because they're not qualified to deal with mold, but did say it was significant.

Another contractor was called in, his name given by the condo manager, and his quote was around $3,500.  The lady upstairs was sent the quote (her place caused damaged to other property), but she's been heeing and hawing, lying and trying to get away from handling this.

Someone suggested going to channel 8 with the story.  Is there any legal problem with the fellow downstairs, whose property was damaged, mentioning his neighbor's name and giving details about the damage?  I know he could go to a lawyer, but he's a student/new home owner and doesn't have a big income.

[RecycleMichael]

If your friend can prove that damage occurred and that the upstairs neighbor is responsible, then the neighbor should pay the invoice. Insurance has nothing to do with it.

File a claim in court.

[Conan71]

If your friend can prove that damage occurred and that the upstairs neighbor is responsible, then the neighbor should pay the invoice. Insurance has nothing to do with it.

File a claim in court.

Actually, if he sues the upstairs neighbor, I believe her homeowner's insurance liability could be roped in on this.  I need to ask the family expert on this one.

[Red Arrow]

If this person was changing an air conditioner filter, I have to ask if the shed was built under another air conditioner without proper protection from a known water dripping source.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And most important of all...never buy a condo!!

[HoneySuckle]

You all brought up some good points, especially about buying a condo! But sometimes one cannot afford a house.

Anyway, the point about how one unit could leak and cause major damage to a shed and part of the condo is something I'm especially passing on.  That's something I have passed on for a contractor to look at.

Thanks. Any other ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

[HoneySuckle]

If this person was changing an air conditioner filter, I have to ask if the shed was built under another air conditioner without proper protection from a known water dripping source.

Known water source?  The lady's a/c upstairs was leaking down on the shed, and must have been going on for months, or even all through last year.  The new owner moved in downstairs in early January, so a/c wasn't running then.  He had to get to his a/c's filter via the shed.  Good point though.  I wonder how the heck her leak was able to cause the entire ceiling of the shed to almost cave in.  It's pretty bad.  I offered to go and take photos as proof.  Might swing by tomorrow.  This is at shadow Mountain.  Not the best place to be living, that's for sure. 

The female (upstairs), works at a bank and the male (downstairs) is working and going to school. He can't afford to fork out money to fix this when it's clearly her responsibility.  People can be so bloody selfish and evil. 

What I wonder about is his going to the media, and how much he can tell them about the owner upstairs.  Don't know if she can turn around and sue for slander.  Anyone can recommend a lawyer?  Do they take cases like this without a huge retaining fee i.e. make a case, and if they win, they take a percentage?  That would work better for him. 

[Red Arrow]

Known water source?  The lady's a/c upstairs was leaking down on the shed, and must have been going on for months, or even all through last year. 

Air conditioners condense water out of the air.  It has to go somewhere.  Do the condo rules require routing the condensate somewhere in particular? Did this outside shed have any kind of shingles on its roof?  Are air conditioners allowed directly above someone else's porch, deck....?  The fact that an air conditioner drips water does not surprise me.

[HoneySuckle]

Actually, if he sues the upstairs neighbor, I believe her homeowner's insurance liability could be roped in on this.  I need to ask the family expert on this one.

Now is that different from her regular home owner's policy?  They told her that they do not cover a long standing leak.  Do you mean if there is a lawsuit, they would have to cover it?

[HoneySuckle]

Air conditioners condense water out of the air.  It has to go somewhere.  Do the condo rules require routing the condensate somewhere in particular? Did this outside shed have any kind of shingles on its roof?  Are air conditioners allowed directly above someone else's porch, deck....?  The fact that an air conditioner drips water does not surprise me.

I'm going by tomorrow to check out the state of the shed and see if there are shingles.  I think the lad is getting another contractor to go out there and I've told him to pose these questions to see what comes of it.  Most of the other contractors focused on the damage inside the shed and his bedroom.

[HoneySuckle]

I have forgotten how to upload a photo here.  Can't I upload from my computer, or must I use photobucket?


http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k222/LaMariposita/shadowmountain_zps62d63048.jpg[/img]]


Okay, found this random shadow mountain unit.  The door all the way to the right side of the pic is what we called the shed.  It's not like the regular shed.  It's a tiny storage area. Wall is back of the bedroom, so the damp/moist conditions have seeped into the bedroom, thus one wall of drywall has to be replaced.

Her unit is above this storage shed.  Not sure what's between hers upstairs and his.  The fact that it seeped down and caused such damage to his ceiling in the shed, where all the insulation has rotted, is really weird. Should there have been a barrier of some sort between the two units?  I'm trying to see if Shadow Mountain themselves are also liable.

[Conan71]

I have forgotten how to upload a photo here.  Can't I upload from my computer, or must I use photobucket?


http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k222/LaMariposita/shadowmountain_zps62d63048.jpg[/img]]


Okay, found this random shadow mountain unit.  The door all the way to the right side of the pic is what we called the shed.  It's not like the regular shed.  It's a tiny storage area. Wall is back of the bedroom, so the damp/moist conditions have seeped into the bedroom, thus one wall of drywall has to be replaced.

Her unit is above this storage shed.  Not sure what's between hers upstairs and his.  The fact that it seeped down and caused such damage to his ceiling in the shed, where all the insulation has rotted, is really weird. Should there have been a barrier of some sort between the two units?  I'm trying to see if Shadow Mountain themselves are also liable.

Okay, the shed is not what I was thinking it was.  It appears it is part of the original building structure.  Is that correct?  I was thinking of a separate structure like a lean-to or tool shed adjacent to the unit.  If that had been the case and someone had constructed a shed under the drainage pipe outlet for a neighbor's air conditioner condensate, the person who erected the shed in such a place would clearly have been negligent in locating a shed in such a place.  However that does not seem to be the issue.

Usually AC condensate drain piping is PVC.  If that piping had developed a leak due to cracks or a loose fitting it might be hard to prove negligence on the part of the homeowner.  If she recently had her AC replaced and the contractor was negligent in the installation and did not glue a fitting it could even fall back on their insurance.  Speaking of insurance, if your friend were to sue the neighbor upstairs and won, it's possible the liability portion that is in every owner-occupied homeowner's policy will have to pay up if the insured can't pay the judgement.

"Shadow Mountain Condominiums" is likely nothing more than a homeowners association (HOA) which has common areas, but the structures are sub-divided amongst the owners.  I don't see liability there.

Best advice is contact an attorney, there's a couple of very competent ones on the forum, PM me if you need personal contact info for either.

[Breadburner]

Normally the association is responsible for exterior maintenance.......

[BKDotCom]

Might be similar to a neighbors tree causing damage on your property...

The rule is this. If the tree falls due to an act of God, i.e. bad weather caused an otherwise healthy looking tree to fall, then everyone pays for their own damage.

If the tree was dead or or fell due to some reason the guy who owns the tree neglected to fix, then he must pay for all damage.

I don't think the leak was an act of God  ( 2011 earthquake?? )
Perhaps freezing pipes would be an act of God??
It definitely sounds like a maintenance issue -> neighbor pays

[heironymouspasparagus]

The evaporator coil (cold air section) will have a drip pan that will have a pipe coming out of it to go outside.  Many times dirt/mold/grunge can plug up that drain pipe at just about any point along the way.  That must be cleaned out.  It also means that drip pan is overflowing and running down inside her equipment, so there may be much bigger problems in the upstairs unit that she has not detected.  Near the equipment closet there may be wet carpet, or "soft" spots in the floor where the plywood deck has rotted, too.  This could be just as big an issue for her.  

Housing built to "low bid" standards....cheap materials, lousy construction methods, corners cut at every opportunity...sounds like an Home Creations event.