River development and new sources of city revenue

[Townsend]

To me the real question remains why we should build another dam at all. Has not been established. To use an Okie'ism, "we buyin' a pig in a poke".

So there can be a water taxi between the new hotel and the West side of the river.

[TheArtist]

So there can be a water taxi between the new hotel and the West side of the river.

Could someone please add a vomit smiley or a face palm smiley to our selection list?  So many time when they are needed.

[heironymouspasparagus]

More dams is stupid.  Rather than trying to copy OKC or Austin or any other town with a dam and some water, how about using some imagination to come up with a different idea that plays to our strengths on the river.  We have an excellent start with the parks and paths that line the river now.  We already have a dam - one more is redundant.  Most of the year, it is a "southwest" style dry riverbed feature, so make use of it that way.  Different.  Imaginative.  Unique.

So we can 'sell' ourselves with something other than the slogan, "just like.....<fill-in-the-blank-of-the-previous-yuppie-nonsense-that-someone-thought-up-that-we-think-is-cool-so-we-want-to-copy-it>...!!

Austin has their river - let them have it!!  Portland has VooDoo donuts.  Seattle has a troll.  All of which are notable and noted as landmarks from time to time.  San Francisco has Lombard street.  And if we make ALL of that stuff here - we could do it if wanted to - we still aren't gonna be 'unique'.  We are gonna be - "and Tulsa has one, too".

Well, we have a big blue whale.  Arcadia has a round barn.  We got rid of most of the character along Route 66 that makes for nostalgia for that kind of thing.  Let's do something different.  Or have we cut education/imagination/cleverness by so much that we can't come up with something new??

[AquaMan]

Sing it brother! The choir has the sheet music!

[Townsend]

More dams is stupid.  Rather than trying to copy OKC or Austin or any other town with a dam and some water, how about using some imagination to come up with a different idea that plays to our strengths on the river.  We have an excellent start with the parks and paths that line the river now.  We already have a dam - one more is redundant.  Most of the year, it is a "southwest" style dry riverbed feature, so make use of it that way.  Different.  Imaginative.  Unique.

So we can 'sell' ourselves with something other than the slogan, "just like.....<fill-in-the-blank-of-the-previous-yuppie-nonsense-that-someone-thought-up-that-we-think-is-cool-so-we-want-to-copy-it>...!!

Austin has their river - let them have it!!  Portland has VooDoo donuts.  Seattle has a troll.  All of which are notable and noted as landmarks from time to time.  San Francisco has Lombard street.  And if we make ALL of that stuff here - we could do it if wanted to - we still aren't gonna be 'unique'.  We are gonna be - "and Tulsa has one, too".

Well, we have a big blue whale.  Arcadia has a round barn.  We got rid of most of the character along Route 66 that makes for nostalgia for that kind of thing.  Let's do something different.  Or have we cut education/imagination/cleverness by so much that we can't come up with something new??

We still have a few penguins.

[Conan71]

To me the real question remains why we should build another dam at all. Has not been established. To use an Okie'ism, "we buyin' a pig in a poke".

Damn it! We don't need another damn dam!

[Townsend]

Could someone please add a vomit smiley or a face palm smiley to our selection list?  So many time when they are needed.

What?  Imagine a large nekkid indian statue where the liberty statue is...

[Townsend]

Could someone please add a vomit smiley or a face palm smiley to our selection list?  So many time when they are needed.

?

[heironymouspasparagus]

We still have a few penguins.

I love the penguins!!  That was brilliant and I want one!!  Or two....

Was in a small town out west somewhere - Utah, I think - and they had the bison equivalent of the penguins!  Very cool.  Need a bison, too!!



I have to spend time to figure out how to post a picture....I have a couple of interesting shots of the old oil well and some of the equipment used with it that is sitting on the Ark River bed.... we should have an oil industry museum here in town.  Something small would do nicely.  I know...it's kind of redundant with what Woolaroc has, and the gas station setup on highway 11 in Barnsdall, but it could be kind of interesting, especially if could get an old gas station building (like the one in Bixby!!)  Maybe get that building and the lot it sits on for the museum...??   I know...it's called the Bixby Museum Complex, but they really haven't a coherent plan there yet - just good intentions that need some help!!

Maybe drag that equipment out of the river to put on display...?  Get hold of the old Spudder Restaurant collection of stuff?  Anyone have an old 'one lunger' engine they don't want?  One that works would be nice..!!??

Could be a nice little attraction.  After all, we like to call ourselves the "Oil Capital"....

Maybe we could talk the fairgrounds out of the Golden Driller....

[rebound]

You guys are confusing, or at least confounding,  tourist attractions with livability improvements.   You don't move to Portland for donuts, you move there for the way of life, proximity to the ocean, mountains, etc.  (and you might not move there because of the high cost of living...)  Parks are great, and I'm all in favor of them.  And the resurgence of downtown is awesome and I hope continues.  But neither of those is unique to any other city in the area.  People like water in any form, be it lake, river or coast, and I do think that filling the river with water (and the related activities) would add immensely to the overall livability of Tulsa.   But I can accept that it's a huge monetary investment, and so needs a lot of consideration.  But tourist attractions aren't the answer.  What is something fundamental that Tulsa can do that would greatly enhance the overall livability and attraction of the area?

[Tulsa Zephyr]

How about something like a Great Raft Race?  People could get up early in the morning for a launch in Sand Springs and local corporations could sponsor and build creative floats with water cannons that could drench crowds on the Highway 97 bridge and river banks along the way.  Commemorative merchandise could be sold and the finish line could be at a river festival held where the  old river amphitheater used to be...Well...it was fun while it lasted...

[heironymouspasparagus]

You guys are confusing, or at least confounding,  tourist attractions with livability improvements.   You don't move to Portland for donuts, you move there for the way of life, proximity to the ocean, mountains, etc.  (and you might not move there because of the high cost of living...)  Parks are great, and I'm all in favor of them.  And the resurgence of downtown is awesome and I hope continues.  But neither of those is unique to any other city in the area.  People like water in any form, be it lake, river or coast, and I do think that filling the river with water (and the related activities) would add immensely to the overall livability of Tulsa.   But I can accept that it's a huge monetary investment, and so needs a lot of consideration.  But tourist attractions aren't the answer.  


What is something fundamental that Tulsa can do that would greatly enhance the overall livability and attraction of the area?

Get rid of Fallin, Inhofe, and Sally Kern for starts!

We have none of those big physical things like mountains and ocean, so we have to make do with what we got.   We DO have massive water infrastructure in all the big lakes around.  Anyone who can afford the trip can have plenty of water fun of just about all kinds...

Your last question is key - what constitutes overall livability and attraction?  Something very different to everyone.  I know for a fact that the things I like are dramatically different from many if not most posters here.  What do we not have that pretty much everywhere else has??  Not much - we have just about everything that anyone else has.  I would like to see us quit worrying so much about the "next big thing" and start to keep working on - and accelerate the effort - the stuff that we already have.  Roads is one of the really BIG ones, and one of the most glaringly obvious.

Making it easier to move around the area would be very desirable (this has typically been the "Public Transit" tab).  Raising the education standards (very long term) and getting a higher level of intellect all around.  We need more people who have read books than are Call of Duty Champions!!

Filling the river with water for the money that would be needed is gonna do what??  Put a couple dozen kayakers on it for a few months a year?  Sculling, like in OKC?  (Another "me too" event for Tulsa).  A dam IS a tourist attraction....how does it increase livability beyond those few dozen?  We have had dams on the river for a hundred years...why haven't they provided this "ultimate" livability experience that we seem to be chasing before now??  

We talk about development on the river - there is a lot of it.  Most of it is a very popular fad for 3 years, then fades away.  We have housing - Westport - and they are gonna bulldoze it.  We have a huge recreation lake about 10 miles from downtown.  We need to stop thinking about making the river another GRDA scale event and think of a different way to make better use of it...the way it is used now is pretty darn good!!  How can it be enhanced - incrementally!! - without crazy money for another dam?  Make the natural way it is into a feature that can be appreciated and utilized rather than just trying to change it's nature!!!

[heironymouspasparagus]

How about something like a Great Raft Race?  People could get up early in the morning for a launch in Sand Springs and local corporations could sponsor and build creative floats with water cannons that could drench crowds on the Highway 97 bridge and river banks along the way.  Commemorative merchandise could be sold and the finish line could be at a river festival held where the  old river amphitheater used to be...Well...it was fun while it lasted...

We get bored easily as a society, don't we?  Short attention spans!

[Red Arrow]

So there can be a water taxi between the new hotel and the West side of the river.

Let them do a monorail.

[nathanm]

In a vacuum, I'd be totally for the low water dams (done right, anyway). However, I think good points have been raised regarding the tradeoffs involved in building them. Perhaps cost-share with the Creeks for the Jenks dam and spend the rest of the money we want to spend on more dams on transit, so people can actually get to these places without their cars and the attendant massive amounts of parking.

It's pretty clear that transit isn't going to happen, though, given that we recently decided that the drunks and carless folks don't need to get around after 8PM. This is Oklahoma, after all, where drunk driving is a rite of passage. It's pretty hard for anything to be less desired by our leadership than form based codes, yet somehow here we are.