PAC Master Plan / Expansion

[Dspike]

The PAC's recently announced master plan seems sufficiently different and new to warrant its own thread. The PAC parking lot thread focused on the mixed use / grocery store project that died in 2023.

Here is the Tulsa World article with a few renderings of the PAC's hopes and dreams, including:
* Major upgrades to existing facility
* New pre and post function amenities
* 60,000 sq ft addition to the west, taking up half of the park space.
* PAC parking lot to the east would house a 1,400 seat structure; underground parking garage
* Skybridge between existing building and new structure on PAC parking lot

To do everything would close the PAC for 3 years during construction.

Looks like all they need is money!

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-politics/article_197bf71e-f47e-11ef-b0c4-8b23e76e2a11.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

[SXSW]

This is a better plan than what they originally proposed.  I hope they can build the larger portion, the theatre to the east with parking underneath, first so they don't have to shut down the PAC for three years. 

Now the question is where does the downtown grocery store go if this site is out of play? 

[swake]

With free curbside pickup and nearly free delivery do physical grocery stores even look like they are going to matter in the future? Kroger has recently entered the OKC market and they don't even have physical stores.

[Red Arrow]

With free curbside pickup and nearly free delivery do physical grocery stores even look like they are going to matter in the future? Kroger has recently entered the OKC market and they don't even have physical stores.

Have to have some place to store the food.  Do you just mean no store for the customer to walk in to?

I like to see the fresh veggies and produce when I buy them.  If you are a typical American and eat nothing but heavily processed, pre-packaged, food I guess never going into a store would be OK.

Even then, the websites that I have seen for Aldi, Sprouts, Target, Reasor's and Walmart will need to become a lot more user friendly.  I say that based on trying to find things like fresh green beans.

Curbside only could be good for consumers' budgets if they are prone to impulse buying something they see on the aisles.

 

[dbacksfan 2.0]

With free curbside pickup and nearly free delivery do physical grocery stores even look like they are going to matter in the future? Kroger has recently entered the OKC market and they don't even have physical stores.

I've done the curbside pickup a couple of times with Fry's (Kroger) and it's not free, there is a built in charge for them picking your groceries and bring them to your car. Same at Walmart.

Seems it's ok for packaged stuff, but I want to choose my veggies and meat products not someone else. Personal preference. Besides I always have a list that I shop by and sometimes find something that I missed on the list.

[SXSW]

With free curbside pickup and nearly free delivery do physical grocery stores even look like they are going to matter in the future? Kroger has recently entered the OKC market and they don't even have physical stores.

I'd like to see something like Target that has an urban format store that could double as a grocery and convenience store, similar to a larger DGX.  The full-block site either at 5th & Elgin or 3rd & Elgin would be perfect for something like this with apartments above.

[Red Arrow]

I've done the curbside pickup a couple of times with Fry's (Kroger) and it's not free, there is a built in charge for them picking your groceries and bring them to your car. Same at Walmart.

So, I guess we are paying for the curbside service whether we use it or not.   

[dbacksfan 2.0]

So, I guess we are paying for the curbside service whether we use it or not.   

I should have looked before I posted, Walmart charges $7.00 for orders under $35.00 and Fry's is $4.95 for under $35.00.

[swake]

We use Target curbside and it's great. The service is free and if you sign up your debit card you actually save 5% on all purchases. We don't buy much meat or veggies from Target, we get that from Reasors. Or Costco.

I can give you a whole list of reasons I never use Walmart or Sams, both personal and macroeconomic. Just don't feed that blood leeching company/family.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I'd like to see something like Target that has an urban format store that could double as a grocery and convenience store, similar to a larger DGX.  The full-block site either at 5th & Elgin or 3rd & Elgin would be perfect for something like this with apartments above.

JMO, I think the block at 5th and Elgin would be an ideal block for a commercial/residential/grocery complex.

Wasn't there something in the works for the old coliseum site?

There is a similar sized block in downtown Phoenix that has half the block as a grocery store and business location and the other half residential and they both incorporate parking garages.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/HjAjztZsQAGEjJdv6

Found it

Quote from: Tulsan on January 12, 2022, 06:38:49 AM

You've got it right, and I should have been more clear.  The subsidiary of Ross Group has acquired TWO full city blocks from the McElroy Manufacturing group, whose principal Peggy McElroy sat on the board of trustees of All Souls until she passed away in 2019.  A sub of the McElroy group was acting as the holding company for the land.  Anyway -

Ross Group now owns the city block bounded by 6th, 7th, Frankfort, and Kenosha (where the Fields Down Randolph building once stood) AND the city block bounded by 5th, 6th, Elgin, and Frankfort (where the Tulsa Coliseum once stood).  These blocks are diagonal from each other across the intersection of 6th and Frankfort.

https://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21490.75

[dbacksfan 2.0]

We use Target curbside and it's great. The service is free and if you sign up your debit card you actually save 5% on all purchases. We don't buy much meat or veggies from Target, we get that from Reasors. Or Costco.

I can give you a whole list of reasons I never use Walmart or Sams, both personal and macroeconomic. Just don't feed that blood leeching company/family.

Yeah, never been a big fan of Walmart/Sam's Club probably for similar reasons.

[SXSW]

JMO, I think the block at 5th and Elgin would be an ideal block for a commercial/residential/grocery complex.

Wasn't there something in the works for the old coliseum site?

There is a similar sized block in downtown Phoenix that has half the block as a grocery store and business location and the other half residential and they both incorporate parking garages.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/HjAjztZsQAGEjJdv6

Found it

https://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21490.75

6th & Elgin would be a good spot and has single ownership of the entire block.