Airport to Downtown Commuter Rail Line

[DwnTwnTul]

Recently there has been some discussion regarding the possibility of a BA / Downtown commuter rail line.  What about a line from the airport to downtown?  A rail line already exists along North 75.  This would provide convenient and affordable access to our city for tourists arriving by air.  Some stops that come to mind could be TCC – North, the area near the Albertson's on North Peoria, and OSU-Tulsa.  I personally love visiting cities such as Chicago, New York, Altanta, and St. Louis, where I can get off my flight and ride the train into the city's core.  It's less hassle, and always more affordable.

[PonderInc]

Tulsa definitely needs to add some mass transit to and from the airport.  When I fly into a city, I expect to be able to jump on a bus or a train and get downtown.  

I live a couple miles from downtown, and had to take a taxi from the airport once...cost me something like 30 or 40 bucks.  There was no bus service. (I think there is a bus that goes to the airport now, but it's not express...I could bike there in less time!)

I think the way to approach this would be to consider rail service from Owasso to downtown Tulsa via the airport.  That way, the Owasso folks could get to their jobs downtown and at American Airlines without clogging up 169 and 244...and Tulsans could zip to and from the airport without having to drive.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by DwnTwnTul

 What about a line from the airport to downtown?  

This would be the ticket for sure in bringing positive growth to downtown. Minneapolis did this and generated far more revenue in their downtown area then they ever expected to.

This would bring most of the travelers downtown and in return would support new hotels and all the venues of entertainment our city would have to offer.

Awesome idea DwnTwnTul, lets just hope the right people see this and look into it.

Here's a link to Minneapolis Light Rail Project:

http://www.mspairport.com/msp/Ground_Transportation/Light_Rail.aspx

[DwnTwnTul]

That's a good point about American Airline employees.  It's probably unlikely there would be a train stop at the front door of the AA facility due to security, but a shuttle could run from the airport train station to AA routinely.  

I just don't understand why the city isn't focusing more on this line versus the BA line.  BA residents are much less likely to utilize mass transit.  That whole concept is beneath them.  On the other hand, those of us downtown and North are not afraid of mass transit.  In fact, many of us enjoy it.  We actually thrive on all things urban.  Not only is a rail line more fitting to this area of town, but it would also be a major tourism benefit.  

I truly believe that once people actually experience Tulsa, they leave with a completely different perspective.  Speaking of AA in Tulsa, perhaps we should consider targeting this demographic.  Knowing the smart remarks made so frequently on this forum, let me get ahead of you.  I'm NOT suggesting we try to attract a bunch of Anonymous Alcoholics to our city.  You KNOW what I mean by "AA".  There are thousands of airline employees across America, most offering their employees flight benefits.  Recognizing that most people don't want to risk the cost involved with coming to an unknown land, it seems only natural that individuals with flight benefits would be more willing to take this risk.  However, for this to be successful we need to make it as convenient and affordable to them as possible.  Having to spend an extra $40 on a cab or car once they arrive, will only serve to discourage them.  Upon an enjoyable experience, they definitely would return home and inform their friends and families, leading to an improved reputation for Tulsa.  

[DwnTwnTul]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

Awesome idea DwnTwnTul, lets just hope the right people see this and look into it.

Thanks Porky.  Perhaps I'm young and naive, but I still have faith in forums like this one to generate the amount of buzz needed.  Unfortunately, suggestions such as this one submitted to our elected "representatives" usually go unnoticed.

[deinstein]

I'm for it.

[AVERAGE JOE]

It's an idea that has been kicked around before, but it's well worth revisiting. And kudos to DTT for breaking it out the line on its own, rather than relying on it being a part of a bigger transit system -- that's a new twist. DTT is right, it's a good enough idea to stand on its own.

It would also likely be a cost effective idea, too. The track already exists -- darn near a straight shot from downtown.

Google maps clearly shows the tracks. Just follow 2nd Street out of downtown eastbound, skirt Mike Patrick Park at Yale & Dawson Road, and head right for the southern edge of the airport grounds. All they'd have to build is a little spur from those tracks to the terminal -- either cut NE diagonally around 73rd East Ave and head right up Airport Drive or go under Hwy 11 and wrap around the Fine Parking facility at Memorial. Run trains twice an hour from 7am to 9pm.

While we're at it, put FedEx and UPS drop boxes (and maybe service counters) at the transit stop downtown and use the train to haul the packages out to Cargo Road at the airport.

edit: if you want to get REALLY crazy with the idea, those same tracks continue due east to Catoosa, where we could run a spur south down 193rd to the Cherokee Casino. Gets people from the airport to the casino, but ALSO from the casino to downtown Tulsa.

The tracks head east of Catoosa and eventually run parallel to Route 66 all the way to Claremore. Run pretty close to the Port of Catoosa, if that's of benefit to anyone.

[Chris]

I really hope this comes to the forefront of possible public projects. I'm all for the river but I think there is enough private money available for development there. I've always felt that transportation, specifically light rail and pedestrian friendly projects, is exactly what's needed for any other projects in the area to work cohesively.

[Double A]

Great topic, excellent idea!

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE



Google maps clearly shows the tracks.  

That's incredible, this really needs to be looked into.

[DwnTwnTul]

While the tracks that run South of the airport would be a much faster route into downtown, I think we should keep an open mind regarding the tracks North of the airport.  It's hard to tell in this map, but those tracks actually run along the "Cherokee Expy" into downtown.

Utilizing the North tracks would allow for better access to OSU-Tulsa, the proposed Langston-Tulsa site, new devlopment on North Peoria, Mohawk Park, the Zoo, and Tulsa Air and Space Museum.

I really like Average Joe's idea of also using it for cargo purposes.  Perhaps our city leaders could partner with companies such as FedEx, UPS, etc. for sponsorship.  

If this rail line was established and I had the money, I would love to build a parking garage near the downtown station on this line.  It could be sold as a long-term "park and ride".

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by DwnTwnTul

While the tracks that run South of the airport would be a much faster route into downtown, I think we should keep an open mind regarding the tracks North of the airport.  It's hard to tell in this map, but those tracks actually run along the "Cherokee Expy" into downtown.

Utilizing the North tracks would allow for better access to OSU-Tulsa, the proposed Langston-Tulsa site, new devlopment on North Peoria, Mohawk Park, the Zoo, and Tulsa Air and Space Museum.

I really like Average Joe's idea of also using it for cargo purposes.  Perhaps our city leaders could partner with companies such as FedEx, UPS, etc. for sponsorship.  

If this rail line was established and I had the money, I would love to build a parking garage near the downtown station on this line.  It could be sold as a long-term "park and ride".

Good ideas, although I'd still favor the more direct "express" route for the airport rail service. A person going to the airport wants the fastest, most direct service possible (ties in with your very good park & ride idea), so making lots of stops throughout north Tulsa is less than ideal. Same would probably hold true for business travelers coming from the airport to meetings downtown. That's my take, anyway. I'd make the airport shuttle a non-stop express - get on downtown, next stop - airport. Depending on the condition of the track and the train used, it could take as little as 8-10 minutes.

But you're right, the tracks to the north that run along Hwy 75 out to Mohawk Park and eventually to Owasso would make an ideal transit line -- Pine and Peoria stop, Mohawk Park stop, Owasso stop.

[AVERAGE JOE]

Thinking about this a little more, I think the 10 minute trip time would be about right. I'm guessing the length of the tracks from downtown to the airport would be around 6-7 miles.

Peoria to Memorial = 5 miles
Admiral to Virgin = 1.5 miles
Add a little for downtown to Peoria and Virgin to the terminal, but subtract some for heading diagonally "as the crow flies".

Just for sake of argument, let's say the track is 6 miles. If the train averages 30mph, that's exactly a 10 minute trip. So not knowing the exact length of the track, I'm still confident that a 10 minute trip is feasible because I think a non-stop train can average more than 30mph.

Ten minutes from downtown is pretty darn convenient, especially being dropped off/picked up right at the terminal.

Makes it very easy to schedule as well. Run trains departing downtown on the hour and half past, run trains departing the airport at quarter after and quarter til, like this:

Depart downtown - 7:00am
Arrive airport - 7:10am
(five minute passegner boarding)
Depart airport - 7:15am
Arrive downtown - 7:25am
(five minute passenger boarding)
Depart downtown - 7:30am
(etc, etc, repeat all day until 9:00pm)

Folks, this would only require one train. Well, maybe two to have a back-up train and to be able to swap them out for maintenance purposes. But that's it -- one train running back and forth all day.

[carltonplace]

Joe, I drive on 75 from 14th and Denver to 69th St North at 6:AM with no traffic at 70 MPH and it takes 13 minutes. Not to quibble, but with a couple of stops its more likely a 20 to 30 minute train commute at 30 MPH

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

Joe, I drive on 75 from 14th and Denver to 69th St North at 6:AM with no traffic at 70 MPH and it takes 13 minutes. Not to quibble, but with a couple of stops its more likely a 20 to 30 minute train commute at 30 MPH

Different route entirely. Look at the map Porky posted above - no twists or turns, just 6-7 miles in an almost perfectly straight line from downtown to the airport. And if you'll reread my posts you'll see that the route I proposed is an express - no stops.